Do KO's even matter any more?

Mik18y ago

I quite often read threads noting how certain fighters havent had a genuine knock out in a long while. Two of the prime examples being two of the most popular topics of discussion on this forum: Joe Calzaghe and Floyd Mayweather Jnr. My question is...how much does it matter? Yes, it is undoubted that we are getting less genuine knock outs because of all the high-profile cases of injury causing referees to get more protective and thus we're getting many more TKOs and stoppages than KOs. Also, if you study most boxers, you'll find that after they get outside of their first 20 fights or so (ie after they are not fed lower classes of boxers anymore) their knockouts start drying up. There are many more boxers that do follow that trend than those who dont. But what difference does it make? Calzaghe throws flurries, the majority of his fights are stopped because of these flurries. He wears his opponents down. Floyd Mayweather is a grinder. Like Calzaghe he blatantly DOES have power. Also like Calzaghe, he has quite brittle hands. Like Calzaghe to combat the risk of breaking his hands and leaving him at a disadvantage he isnt always looking for knock out punches. He wears his opponents down by making them chase him and by counter-punching and then tries to get stoppages by precision punches on a tired fighter...NOT by going for the KO (not often anyway). Why should they be criticised for this? Why is knocking an opponent out a more prestigious victory considering what we know of the effects of such occurances, as opposed to skillfully and technically out-flanking the opponent and beating them over the duration of the contest, showing a greater stamina and tactical display than a simple knockout? Sure, I can see why opponents with huge power are lauded for their ability to knock people out, but I dont see why people are criticised for not doing so. With that said, those PBF fans who constantly run around shouting about how PBF is going to 'knock Hatton's head off' and 'kill him' need to realise that he is not this type of fighter and by claiming he will do so you are looking like a cunt. I dont see many people making the same claim about Calzaghe, they much more realistically say Calzaghe is more likely to stop or UD Kessler. Discuss.

Comments (20)

BK_Saddizzle

To quote Apollo Creed "Look in their eyes Rock, that's what you lost, the eye of Tiger...". KO's have alot to do wit how hungry these fighters are (ie: RJJ could've finished Hanshaw from the 4th rnd but took the decision & ain't KO'd NOOOOOObody since 2001). Also these refs stop fights kinda prematurely these days (ie: back in the day Arturo Gatti used to get dropped, bloodied FUBR & still come back to KO his opponents). Lastly, with all the heat comin down on MMA & then MMA pointing @ the stats in boxing for fatalities, the powers that be are content to let fights end with controversy, & it gives'em reason to schedule the rematch, Dig It?!?:boxing:

18y ago

Mik

Aye. Thats cos you're a bloodthirsty brute though.

18y ago

kayjay

You raise an interesting point. For some reason we require Heavyweights to use incredible power to knock their opponents out, instead of masterful skills to out-tactic them to a strong decision victory. Moreso than we do with any other division. Why? Is this also why we're ending up with a load of hugely massive fighters who are in questionable shape and put on fight after fight of aimless skill-less slugging...with a few exceptions of course? To me the weakness of the lower divisions is that the fighters can't punch hard enough to hurt each other with one punch. This conditions the strength of those divisions, namely that there can be more involved exchanges. But the drama isn't there. To me the HWs are much more exciting, even when they're being overly cautious, because you know at any moment either guy can knock the other guy out. It demands better concentration on the fighters' part.

18y ago

kayjay

The goal in a fight is to knock the other guy out. If that can't be done, then a decision is awarded, but a knockout is still better than two or three decision wins in my book.

18y ago

Mik

Yeah, fucking quitter. You seem to be arguing on a completely different subject though.

18y ago

Mik

** Need to revise your question. Joe had a KO his last fight and has a 74% career KO ratio. Purty Grrl don't have a KO in 2 yrs and only a 63% KO ratio that is dropping faster than an Imas joke at the NAACP convention. Nah. Manfredo was a TKO. I explicitly stated a number of times that I was referring to KO's as being knockouts, ie when the opponent is unable to make the count.

18y ago

Panamaniac

Long live the KO! The KO puts the exclamation point in a victory! TKO's involving knockdowns are just as dramatic as being counted out. Sure, it's very exciting to see two fighters go at it toe-to toe, but the real pay-off uccurs when one of them is knocked on his ass! Although early KO's can be somewhat disappointing, they're still better than a fight that goes the limit and remain inconclusive due to incompetent judging ("I wuz robbed") or a deadlock. Every sport has it's own dramatic zenith. In basketball, it's the field goal (3 pts.) or slam dunk; in football, it's the touchdown; in baseball it's the homerun; in boxing, the knockout. In fact, boxing broadcasters often use "homerun" as a metaphor for the KO.

18y ago

Mr_David

** Need to revise your question. Joe had a KO his last fight and has a 74% career KO ratio. Purty Grrl don't have a KO in 2 yrs and only a 63% KO ratio that is dropping faster than an Imas joke at the NAACP convention. Calzaghe's stoppage victory over Peter Manfredo Jr. was probably the most blatant early stoppage we've seen in a while. No, Manfredo wasn't throwing back, but the best you can say is that Calzaghe's flurries had that air above Manfredo's head in some serious trouble. Calzaghe's also been fighting at super middleweight for a long, long time. Mayweather began his career as a junior lightweight and is now pretty much a welterweight. And even then, he walks around near that weight so he needs to rely on his speed, skills, smarts and strength training to beat his foes. Funny thing is, I was thinking of one of Calzaghe's non-KO wins -- his decision over Lacy -- as one of the more impressive unanimous decisions, right up there, in recent years, with Winky Wright's near-shutout of Trinidad.

18y ago

LondonRingRules

I quite often read threads noting how certain fighters havent had a genuine knock out in a long while. Two of the prime examples being two of the most popular topics of discussion on this forum: Joe Calzaghe and Floyd Mayweather Jnr. My question is... ** Need to revise your question. Joe had a KO his last fight and has a 74% career KO ratio. Purty Grrl don't have a KO in 2 yrs and only a 63% KO ratio that is dropping faster than an Imas joke at the NAACP convention.

18y ago

Randall_Hopkirk

Of course they are more prestigious. I said that myself. You dont think that people can make excuses for being knocked out? Lewis did. People made them for him too. I'd say that taking an mutual decision where you've took a beating over 12 rounds gives you less excuse and reason to complain than winning a fight for 8 rounds and then losing it due to one punch. But I dunno. Not sure about the McCall defeat but he took the Rahman defeat on the chin, literally

18y ago

Mik

Yeah...if the point of the fight is to keep going until someone is knocked out. They dont do that anymore you know?

18y ago

BmoreBrawler

I dont think thats strictly true at all. Ring technicians have been very respected pugilists from the early days of boxing. Just cos the rounds went on forever doesnt mean that there werent tactical exchanges that dictated the matches and wore down the opponents so that the knockouts came more from fatigue and exhaustion than a killer single shot. right, any boxer will eventually achieve a KO if they try.

18y ago

Mik

If you at no point go for a KO, you dont really deserve to win a FIGHT unless its just a complete slaughter. Make it a fight, not just a fencing match with gloves, please. Thats how boxing was designed to be from the beginning, its why we have judges and not just punch counters. I dont think thats strictly true at all. Ring technicians have been very respected pugilists from the early days of boxing. Just cos the rounds went on forever doesnt mean that there werent tactical exchanges that dictated the matches and wore down the opponents so that the knockouts came more from fatigue and exhaustion than a killer single shot.

18y ago

squealpiggy

Saying that he was caught IS an excuse in this situation. He's not saying "Yes, I was beaten by the better fighter" which he couldnt possibly have argued against had he taken a 12 round raping, he's saying that they were lucky shots caused mostly by Lewis' own carelessness. You see what I mean? I know what you mean but the result in the rematch pretty much confirms what he said. Besides which stoppages are still important, it just isn't 12345678910yerout as much.

18y ago

BmoreBrawler

18y ago

eazy_mas

here is something pre-fight between Castillo and Mayweather talking about hands problem , very informative

18y ago

Mik

I want to say that I am huge fan of Joan Guzman Benard Hopkins PBF Cotto and that I really don't care if they win by U.D K.O T.K.O As long as they get the win. Those that go for the K.O are always the ones that end up getting K.O'd. Why not Calzaghe? Lewis was fairly philosophical about his knockout losses. He didn't make excuses. he said he got caught, which is the simple truth. And he went on to completely dominate in the rematch (although in the case of McCall this is slightly unfair, McCall was obviously messed up). Saying that he was caught IS an excuse in this situation. He's not saying "Yes, I was beaten by the better fighter" which he couldnt possibly have argued against had he taken a 12 round raping, he's saying that they were lucky shots caused mostly by Lewis' own carelessness. You see what I mean? a TKO is still considered a KO Not for the purposes of this discussion. We're talking about actual knockouts as opposed to stoppages.

18y ago

Sin_City

a TKO is still considered a KO

18y ago

squealpiggy

You dont think that people can make excuses for being knocked out? Lewis did. Lewis was fairly philosophical about his knockout losses. He didn't make excuses. he said he got caught, which is the simple truth. And he went on to completely dominate in the rematch (although in the case of McCall this is slightly unfair, McCall was obviously messed up).

18y ago

P4PGOAT

You raise an interesting point. For some reason we require Heavyweights to use incredible power to knock their opponents out, instead of masterful skills to out-tactic them to a strong decision victory. Moreso than we do with any other division. Why? Is this also why we're ending up with a load of hugely massive fighters who are in questionable shape and put on fight after fight of aimless skill-less slugging...with a few exceptions of course? for me this is cos in the smaller weight divisions you tend to see more speed, skills, and stamina. so when i choose to watch heavyweight boxing, there's one BIG reason why. the one thing they're always gonna have over the smaller guys is power, so that's kinda what i tune in to see.

18y ago