Are many of us hypocrites?

So, so many people here are on their knees for Kelly Pavlik. This must be solely based on his power. Let's look at Floyd Mayweather- a guy who is constantly being trash talked and has many detractors. Pavlik is 31-0. When Mayweather was 31-0 he had already fought the following : 1.) Demarcus Corley 2.) Phillip N'Dou 3.) Jose Louis Castillo 4.) Jesus Chavez 5.) Diego Corrales 6.)Genaro Hernandez Pavlik who is now 31-0 has fought: .....? Zertuche? McKart? I mean really- he has yet to fight any known, champion level fighters. Miranda was up-and coming- but not A level. I don't a have a problem with Kelly Pavlik but people are calling him an amazing fighter. Look at Floyd when he had the same record....he's still being criticized after beating Oscar de la Hoya. Is there any excuse for you guys riding him other than his power...? This is a thread I hope gets some discussion going...it really confuses me. you have alot of good points. IMO, here you have an undefeated fighter in the Middle Weight division, that just might pose a more than decent shot a dethrowning Taylor and Calzaghe. A clash of undefeated title holders. But when these so called "I'm-the-Best" fighters start fighting the other champions, and quit "cherry picking", to make them selves richer, and pad that undefeated record.... Floyd is great, no doubt. But Mayweather has GOT TO fight... 1) Cotto (WBA 2) Margarito (WBO) 3) Mosley 4) Williams (in 2 years) 50 Cintron (IBF) Should be beat ALL, and convincingly....clean the WW division...Floyd will be an ALL TIME GREAT!

It SHOULD only be about the boxing... If it was.. Floyd would be the Biggest STAR in the sport.. However it's not just about the BOXING is it?? Because if it was about the "boxing"(in reality, what you mean is inflated punchstats) then every fighter would be a cory spinks.

I've been here a year or so now and I've seen many posters doubt Floyd's resume....and look at who he had fought when he was where Pavlik is now. So why is Kelly Pavlik so amazing when he hasn't faced anywhere near the same level of opposition? Other than his ability to bang. OK watch both fights Miranda vs Pavlik then MAyweather vs De la Hoya, both good fights IMO in their own ways, and you should answer your own question. But heres my take on it. Why all the excitement being generated over Pavlik? He's exciting! He's a good technical fighter but he brings it and wants to not just win his fights but win in the best fashion he possibly can. On the issue of questioning Mayweather's resume; Ive never heard Pavlik lay claim to being the GOAT, thats what Floyd has done time and time again and his resume just doesnt stack up to that claim and his on camera antics dont help matters. But to get down to it its about the way he fights. He is a defensive genius and tactical master but when all that boils down to him just doing enough to win a fight when it is obvious he could take a few more chances and blow a guy out this gives the perception of a boring fight and guy who doesnt fight with a lot of passion. Most people can't/don't appreciate this and rightfully so. IMO

and oeople hated Foreman, who's a bigger puncher than him?

It's totally false though that people only like big punchers. I used Mayweather De La Hoya's success as ane example and there's countless others. Muhammad Ali, not a big puncher, Evander Holyfield. I could go on.

That doesn't really mean that he can't get a guy stopped by one punch. It's not exclusive to power that you need to take guys out in the early rounds. Any fighter who stops his opponent in the later rounds will be doing so after an accumulation on punishment. Look at the Zertuche knock out. The guy was out on his feet with one punch. Traditionally, when you consider a fighter to only stop guys after an accumulation of damage they don't have the pop to end the night with one, solid punch. Pavlik can. Agreed. He hits hard. That knockout of Zertuche was impressive. Putting him to sleep while standing and the guy had never been stopped or knocked down before and I've seen a fight of his where he takes a tremendous amount of punishment.

He is a power hitter, but most of his knockouts do come in mid rounds after an accumulation of punishment. That doesn't really mean that he can't get a guy stopped by one punch. It's not exclusive to power that you need to take guys out in the early rounds. Any fighter who stops his opponent in the later rounds will be doing so after an accumulation on punishment. Look at the Zertuche knock out. The guy was out on his feet with one punch. Traditionally, when you consider a fighter to only stop guys after an accumulation of damage they don't have the pop to end the night with one, solid punch. Pavlik can.

I dont know why you think's it's wrong to like guys have that good punching power. It's a staple of most good boxers. Two boxers, Mayweather and De La Hoya just grossed the highest revenue ever for a boxing match so I dont know how you can say people only like big power punchers.

He doesn't have a Tyson punch but he is a power hitter. You can't deny that he hurts guys with single shots. I wouldn't call him an accumulation hitter. I feel he does have power to knock out a guy with a solid shot. I think he showed that against Miranda. He is a power hitter, but most of his knockouts do come in mid rounds after an accumulation of punishment.

Pavlik doesn't have a tremenouds amount one punch knockout power, Most of his knockouts come in mid rounds after an accumlation of punches. If he did though I have no idea why that would be worth criticism. He doesn't have a Tyson punch but he is a power hitter. You can't deny that he hurts guys with single shots. I wouldn't call him an accumulation hitter. I feel he does have power to knock out a guy with a solid shot. I think he showed that against Miranda.

I'm not comparing the styles of Kelly Pavlik and Juan Diaz. Not at all. I'm pointing to the fact that you don't know Diaz very well- while you and others have seen and like Pavlik for one reason - power. Baby bull is a very exciting fighter who isn't nearly as popular as I thought he would be right now because he doesn't have the power. He's a pressure fighter who throws more than Pavlik and yet without the ability to one punch KO a guy...he's falling through the cracks. So the casual fan's excitement has solely to do with how hard a fighter hits. Diaz has to wear a guy down, or maybe not stop him at all, and therefore isn't getting the type of coming out party Pavlik seems to be getting right now. Despite even having a belt around his waist. Shame. The little men have uphill battles to fight. Unless they can hit like Manny they're in trouble. Pavlik doesn't have a tremenouds amount one punch knockout power, Most of his knockouts come in mid rounds after an accumlation of punches. If he did though I have no idea why that would be worthy of criticism.

It's the landscape of the middleweight division. He may very well have flaws, I'm sure there's a guy out there that has a great style to beat him. And if all Pavlik could do is punch he would have lost to Miranda. Miranda has more punching power than he does. People criticize his defence but with the adjustments he made he didn't take a whole lot of punishment from Miranda, a guy who was considered before last weekened as a great offensive fighter. About Jaun Diaz. I am not going to comment. I've seen a couple of his fights but they're not fresh in my memory. I'll say that Diaz and Pavlik are not that similar of fighters though. Diaz is your classic pressure fighter, getting close, throwing volumes of punches, smothering his opponent. Pavlik stands and delivers with long straight punches, a style that's condusive to him being 6'2 and a middleweight. I'm not comparing the styles of Kelly Pavlik and Juan Diaz. Not at all. I'm pointing to the fact that you don't know Diaz very well- while you and others have seen and like Pavlik for one reason - power. Baby bull is a very exciting fighter who isn't nearly as popular as I thought he would be right now because he doesn't have the power. He's a pressure fighter who throws more than Pavlik and yet without the ability to one punch KO a guy...he's falling through the cracks. So the casual fan's excitement has solely to do with how hard a fighter hits. Diaz has to wear a guy down, or maybe not stop him at all, and therefore isn't getting the type of coming out party Pavlik seems to be getting right now. Despite even having a belt around his waist. Shame. The little men have uphill battles to fight. Unless they can hit like Manny they're in trouble.

When your opposition is weak you can knock them out. I'm not saying Pavlik is a poor fighter; rather that he's a flawed fighter. I think he's a nice guy, good puncher, but I don't think he's the messiah of the middleweight division. My point is more along the lines of : why jump on Pavlik just because he can punch. Your argument is in the land of the blind men the one eyed man is king. If there's nobody better out there he's amazing. No....I'm not sold on Pavlik. Do you like Juan Diaz? Since you like exciting, pressure fighters. It's the landscape of the middleweight division. He may very well have flaws, I'm sure there's a guy out there that has a great style to beat him. And if all Pavlik could do is punch he would have lost to Miranda. Miranda has more punching power than he does. People criticize his defence but with the adjustments he made he didn't take a whole lot of punishment from Miranda, a guy who was considered before last weekened as a great offensive fighter. About Jaun Diaz. I am not going to comment. I've seen a couple of his fights but they're not fresh in my memory. I'll say that Diaz and Pavlik are not that similar of fighters though. Diaz is your classic pressure fighter, getting close, throwing volumes of punches, smothering his opponent. Pavlik stands and delivers with long straight punches, a style that's condusive to him being 6'2 and a middleweight.

When your opposition is weak you can knock them out. I'm not saying Pavlik is a poor fighter; rather that he's a flawed fighter. I think he's a nice guy, good puncher, but I don't think he's the messiah of the middleweight division. My point is more along the lines of : why jump on Pavlik just because he can punch. Your argument is in the land of the blind men the one eyed man is king. If there's nobody better out there he's amazing. No....I'm not sold on Pavlik. Do you like Juan Diaz? Since you like exciting, pressure fighters.

I think his style is simple and he has flaws. I'm lost why he's so amazingly exciting other than his power. No one care to comment on my point about Juan Diaz? Who would you rather watch at 160. Your criticizing the guy for defeating his opponents in the most dominant way possible, by knockout, he's stopped like the last 9 guys he faced or something. Anybody he goes against he's going to make them fight, I like guys like that personally.

I think his style is simple and he has flaws. I'm lost why he's so amazingly exciting other than his power. No one care to comment on my point about Juan Diaz?

It would probably be a guy who is very effective moving around the ring that would give Pavlik the most problems. A guy that doesn't stand in front of him whatsoever, but who is there at 160 to 168 that is of that ilk.

Pavlik's superior game plan...using boxing skill was the following: make Miranda go backwards. That's it. That is all he had to do. Pavlik used a good game plan and won. He looked good- I agree. But the fighter he was up against took so little to crack; just making Edison go backwards flustered and confused him. All Kelly had to do was keep moving forward. He took some good shots. Showed a solid chin. He stayed to his game plan. Showed a mental toughness. But, all in all, the Miranda-Pavlik fight showed me more about Miranda's weaknesses than Pavlik's strengths. We already knew he could punch. What did we really learn about his skill. That he can move forward with B- defense (if that)? Do that against a solid boxer/puncher and watch Kelly eat it. It's too soon to call Pavlik the next big middleweight. Maybe in terms of no one else being out there...but people are just foaming at the mouth for this guy because he's "exciting"..... Pavliik is very fundamentally sound, he used his advantages and did what was neccessary to win and win in convincing fashion. You think it would do him good to get up on his toes and dance around the ring like Ali, or fight off the ropes countering like James Toney. His style simplistic but effective. Why complicate things if you dont have to, nobody has ever forced him to. He made the neccessary adjustments againt Miranda, being maybe a little bit more agressive and come forward than usual.

So, so many people here are on their knees for Kelly Pavlik. This must be solely based on his power. Let's look at Floyd Mayweather- a guy who is constantly being trash talked and has many detractors. Pavlik is 31-0. When Mayweather was 31-0 he had already fought the following : 1.) Demarcus Corley 2.) Phillip N'Dou 3.) Jose Louis Castillo 4.) Jesus Chavez 5.) Diego Corrales 6.)Genaro Hernandez Pavlik who is now 31-0 has fought: .....? Zertuche? McKart? I mean really- he has yet to fight any known, champion level fighters. Miranda was up-and coming- but not A level. I don't a have a problem with Kelly Pavlik but people are calling him an amazing fighter. Look at Floyd when he had the same record....he's still being criticized after beating Oscar de la Hoya. Is there any excuse for you guys riding him other than his power...? This is a thread I hope gets some discussion going...it really confuses me. He moves up too much and skips important fights like Casamayor, Freitas, Mosley,Tsyzu, Hatton, Cotto,The real Jesus Chavez(not that sorry one you posted that is from Mexico), Margarito and makes up for that by fighting Bruseles, NDou overated ,pathetic Gatti,Mayorga,Corley, V.Sosa, the Jesus Chavesfrom Mexico(not El Matador Chaves), He couldve stayed at the lower weights when Morales was calling him out about 3 years ago and fought possibly against actual great hall of fame type fighters like Morales,Barrera,J.MMarquez and need i say more. He skipped so many fighters and claimed to wipe out the devisions, he claimes to be undefeated when everyone honestly knows he lost to Castillo and still he runs his mouth as if he were a god. He recently barely got by a old, tired out of prime and out of top 20 p4p Oscar, it was supposed to be a war said Mayweather, he was supposed to smack De La Hoya. Old De La Hoya, Floyds face was the one with bumps and bruises and at the end when people heard who was the winner of the controversial decision fight, almost everyone shouted out Bullshit. Floyd got booed in his hometown, where he lives, Las Vegas. Floyd actually asked forforgiveness to sorry ass UFC for ripping on their sport, Floyds dad wanted to cry when he tried to answer honestly that hhe in his heart thought Oscar won. Now Floyd claims to be the greatest still and wants to retire. Hes crazy in ways

Yes, but Pavlk defeated Miranda for superior boxing ability. I dont know where people get this that only people that are good boxers are guys like Floyd that never press fights and just do enough to get descisions, that's not what boxing is about. Pavlik's superior game plan...using boxing skill was the following: make Miranda go backwards. That's it. That is all he had to do. Pavlik used a good game plan and won. He looked good- I agree. But the fighter he was up against took so little to crack; just making Edison go backwards flustered and confused him. All Kelly had to do was keep moving forward. He took some good shots. Showed a solid chin. He stayed to his game plan. Showed a mental toughness. But, all in all, the Miranda-Pavlik fight showed me more about Miranda's weaknesses than Pavlik's strengths. We already knew he could punch. What did we really learn about his skill. That he can move forward with B- defense (if that)? Do that against a solid boxer/puncher and watch Kelly eat it. It's too soon to call Pavlik the next big middleweight. Maybe in terms of no one else being out there...but people are just foaming at the mouth for this guy because he's "exciting".....