The Miguel Cotto Question

JCC is considered one of the best Mexican fighters ever, it took him a lot more than 28 fights to fight someone at his level, for that matter, Ricky Hatton is considered a super star, took him 40 fights to fight an elite boxer. So what's your point about not having fought any elites in 28 fights? And you thought he was brought up slowly... G, oh here you go.. :lol1: I didn't even make that reference. We were debating the fashion in which our Superstars and potential Superstars went through the "nobody's" at the early stage in their career.

You arbitrarily chose what I was referring to. The first 10 fights, the first 15, the first 20.. BLOWING people out. Funnny you should mention Whitaker.. It was De La Hoya's 24th pro fight. Oscar had Knocked Out 20 of 23 opponents at that point. 16 of those 20 KO's came in LESS THAN 4 ROUNDS! BTW; who the hell looks good against Pernell Whitaker anyway???? :lol1: Are you kidding me? JCC is considered one of the best Mexican fighters ever, it took him a lot more than 28 fights to fight someone at his level, for that matter, Ricky Hatton is considered a super star, took him 40 fights to fight an elite boxer. So what's your point about not having fought any elites in 28 fights? And you thought he was brought up slowly...

as long as people have to pay fifty dollars to see anyone fight a real fight there will be no superstars in boxing. boxing=the new pro wrestling. ppv=stupid fans

Felix Trinidad. So if Cotto doesnt reach Oscars status, he's not a superstar? In Whitaker's second to last pro fight after he was used up, sure.. Pernell broke his fucking shoulder the next time out and retired. :lol1: I referred to more than just Oscar as an example. Let's come off the Oscar angle. I already shattered that line of argument.

You arbitrarily chose what I was referring to. The first 10 fights, the first 15, the first 20.. BLOWING people out. Funnny you should mention Whitaker.. It was De La Hoya's 24th pro fight. Oscar had Knocked Out 20 of 23 opponents at that point. 16 of those 20 KO's came in LESS THAN 4 ROUNDS! BTW; who the hell looks good against Pernell Whitaker anyway???? :lol1: Are you kidding me? Felix Trinidad. So if Cotto doesnt reach Oscars status, he's not a superstar?

Are you kidding me? Oscar look like shit against pernell, One of his First big fights. Some people that he lost. Mayweather looked like shit Castillo and many people knows he lost the first fight. Not one great Fighter came out blowing away the competition sorry. You arbitrarily chose what I was referring to. The first 10 fights, the first 15, the first 20.. BLOWING people out. Funnny you should mention Whitaker.. It was De La Hoya's 24th pro fight. Oscar had Knocked Out 20 of 23 opponents at that point. 16 of those 20 KO's came in LESS THAN 4 ROUNDS! BTW; who the hell looks good against Pernell Whitaker anyway???? :lol1: Are you kidding me?

Cotto and Tyson of the 90's comapirable?? Wow, that's a hell of a stretch. The biggest misconseption of Tyson was that he had no boxing skills, upperbody movement, speed, accuracy and footwork as you put it. Tyson was a very good boxer with incredible punching power. Tyson's demise was due to the people he surrounded himself with towards the end of his career and how they steered him in the wrong way. Tyson was young and stupid, Cotto seems to have a good head on his shoulders and surrounded by good people but he STILL HASN'T FOUGHT ANYONE YET!!!! Yet he's a SUPERSTAR??? Quit the love fest already................ You missed the point, the point was that Tyson, at least the version of Tyson that we have now, does NOT show his previous skills, upperbody movement, accuracy, etc. and NEITHER DOES COTTO, except in Cotto's case, he NEVER HAD THEM to begin with. and I think Zab will box Cotto's ears off quite frankly. Cotto may be a star in Puerto Rico, but that is the only place, and as I said, what boxer from Puerto Rico doesn't have a following on the island?

Now, THAT is a damn good post. Although personally I think Zab will outbox the "much too slow Cotto" and frustrate Cotto all night, with Judah winning a U.D. or event by a late TKO, if Cotto doesn't land the bomb that is! Nonetheless, I agree with your view on the Cotto style and the comparison of it to the 90's Tyson are accurate. Cotto has heart, and a beard, but not alot of skill as far as upperbody movement, speed, accuracy, footwork etc. goes. What he does have is good power in his left hook and uppercuts. He is a star in Puerto Rico, but then what fighter from Puerto Rico doesn't have a following? Does he beat the real "Superstars" of the division past or present - probably not. Cotto and Tyson of the 90's comapirable?? Wow, that's a hell of a stretch. The biggest misconseption of Tyson was that he had no boxing skills, upperbody movement, speed, accuracy and footwork as you put it. Tyson was a very good boxer with incredible punching power. Tyson's demise was due to the people he surrounded himself with towards the end of his career and how they steered him in the wrong way. Tyson was young and stupid, Cotto seems to have a good head on his shoulders and surrounded by good people but he STILL HASN'T FOUGHT ANYONE YET!!!! Yet he's a SUPERSTAR??? Quit the love fest already................

In my humble opinion, as a boxing fan for some 33 years, I think Cotto is already a "superstar" of sorts in that he's a media creation at this point. But, does he have what it takes to legitimize himself as a superstar? I don't think so, and here's why: Cotto, as someone else pointed out, is a bit of a plodder, and in my opinion, too easy to hit. He would be well served to learn how to give his opponents angles instead of coming straight in. It will cost him some night. Will it be against Zab Judah? I doubt it. Against Antonio Margarito? I doubt that fight will come off because I don't see Margo making it past Paul Williams. Cotto at times reminds me of Mike Tyson in the way he comes at opponents. Not the Mike Tyson of the 80's, but the Tyson of the 90's, post Buster Douglas. Gone was the bobbing, weaving, and angles to his approach. He came straight in. He did that against Douglas and it cost him, and Cotto, like Tyson, will find his Buster Douglas as well. When it happens the boxing world will be stunned because like Douglas vs Tyson it will be a huge upset! Cotto is apparently stepping up in competition, and that may lead to his demise. Mark my words.... when he loses it will be by knockout and it will be after being dominated. I have a great match-up: If Cotto doesn't fight Margarito, how about Cotto vs Sugar Shane Mosley? What a fight!! Now, THAT is a damn good post. Although personally I think Zab will outbox the "much too slow Cotto" and frustrate Cotto all night, with Judah winning a U.D. or event by a late TKO, if Cotto doesn't land the bomb that is! Nonetheless, I agree with your view on the Cotto style and the comparison of it to the 90's Tyson are accurate. Cotto has heart, and a beard, but not alot of skill as far as upperbody movement, speed, accuracy, footwork etc. goes. What he does have is good power in his left hook and uppercuts. He is a star in Puerto Rico, but then what fighter from Puerto Rico doesn't have a following? Does he beat the real "Superstars" of the division past or present - probably not.

That's been the most accurate and insightful for my taste.. :fing02: Lol Exactly.

In my humble opinion, as a boxing fan for some 33 years, I think Cotto is already a "superstar" of sorts in that he's a media creation at this point. But, does he have what it takes to legitimize himself as a superstar? I don't think so, and here's why: Cotto, as someone else pointed out, is a bit of a plodder, and in my opinion, too easy to hit. He would be well served to learn how to give his opponents angles instead of coming straight in. It will cost him some night. Will it be against Zab Judah? I doubt it. Against Antonio Margarito? I doubt that fight will come off because I don't see Margo making it past Paul Williams. Cotto at times reminds me of Mike Tyson in the way he comes at opponents. Not the Mike Tyson of the 80's, but the Tyson of the 90's, post Buster Douglas. Gone was the bobbing, weaving, and angles to his approach. He came straight in. He did that against Douglas and it cost him, and Cotto, like Tyson, will find his Buster Douglas as well. When it happens the boxing world will be stunned because like Douglas vs Tyson it will be a huge upset! Cotto is apparently stepping up in competition, and that may lead to his demise. Mark my words.... when he loses it will be by knockout and it will be after being dominated. I have a great match-up: If Cotto doesn't fight Margarito, how about Cotto vs Sugar Shane Mosley? What a fight!! He does come straight in, and you would think how easy it would be to just take this guy apart as he comes straight in, but you're not considering this guy is coming straight in and you have to keep those elbows in at all times 'coz every time you let your hands go, you take some massive body shots, that kinda throws your plan out the window and all of a sudden you find yourself trying to jab and pot shot and not trade. Cotto testes his opponents early on and decides if he wants to brawl it out or box, he's a good boxer as well and switches nicely from conventional to lefty to confuse his opponents. I think we need to see how his chin holds up against Zab to have a clear picture how he'll do against Mosley, no shame in losing to Mosley, super star fighters have lost to Mosley before and are still considered super stars as DLH is. We also need to see if he's still hungry to train really hard for this upcoming fights to become a super star, and NO, eventhough he's one of my favorite fighters, I don't think he's a super star yet, he's on the verge of becoming one, but not one yet.

In my humble opinion, as a boxing fan for some 33 years, I think Cotto is already a "superstar" of sorts in that he's a media creation at this point. But, does he have what it takes to legitimize himself as a superstar? I don't think so, and here's why: Cotto, as someone else pointed out, is a bit of a plodder, and in my opinion, too easy to hit. He would be well served to learn how to give his opponents angles instead of coming straight in. It will cost him some night. Will it be against Zab Judah? I doubt it. Against Antonio Margarito? I doubt that fight will come off because I don't see Margo making it past Paul Williams. Cotto at times reminds me of Mike Tyson in the way he comes at opponents. Not the Mike Tyson of the 80's, but the Tyson of the 90's, post Buster Douglas. Gone was the bobbing, weaving, and angles to his approach. He came straight in. He did that against Douglas and it cost him, and Cotto, like Tyson, will find his Buster Douglas as well. When it happens the boxing world will be stunned because like Douglas vs Tyson it will be a huge upset! Cotto is apparently stepping up in competition, and that may lead to his demise. Mark my words.... when he loses it will be by knockout and it will be after being dominated. I have a great match-up: If Cotto doesn't fight Margarito, how about Cotto vs Sugar Shane Mosley? What a fight!!

Yea and Tito was dropped by much lesser opponent than DLH. So I guess we can argue all day about it, I just think when it's all said and done, DLH will be remembered as the better fighter. As far as Cotto, the bottom line is we don't know yet what he can do. This year will be a make or break year for Cotto and to see if he belongs in the elite group of fighters int hat division. There's alot names in that weight class that would make for interesting fights with Cotto, the question is, when will his camp take the risk and get the fights signed? DLH will be remembered as the better fighter, no question about that, golden medal for USA, had many undeserving fights given to him as well, and brought a whole new era of not taking the biggest risks of fight but the one that make more profit. Was too proud to make a rematch with Trinidad because of being the biggest draw $$$. You think SRR, SRL, Hagler, Duran, Gomez, Finito, or any of the last era greats wouldn't have fought again, and honor the agreement clause of their first fight that if Tito won the first time and a rematch ever happened, they would switch names in the contract? Funny how you mentioned title fights dominated by Mexicans and bring out Gomez vs Sanchez and cant remember who the other one was. People tend to forget the Pinto, Zarate, Rubaldino, Lopez, Meza, and the rest of Mex fighters he KOd, all of a sudden those guys weren't good enough. JCC did own Chapo and Macho no doubt, funny how he stepped up and went after DLH and not Trinidad? You see, we can have this argument for months, it all depends how you look at things. And no, historically Mexicans haven't done better in title fights against PRicans, it all depends where you look it up and what are you looking for.

define superstardomn? Mayweather big? I guess you define that monetarily by ppv draw and purse numbers but what about fanbase and ticket sales, what level is Cotto on now? If he beats Zab I can't see him moving ahead of margarito in ratings I define superstardomn as a fighter that everytime that he steps in the ring is a must see TV. Even the casual fan wants to see him fight. Can Cotto become a superstar? Definitely. He is already a bigger draw than Margarito, Castillo and Hatton. I am sure you are thinking that I am crazy, but hear me out. Sure, those three probably have bigger fan base than Cotto. But their fan base are mostly from their own nationality. Cotto has the chance to transcend those barriers and become a fighter that everyone wants to watch, no matter where they are from or what fighter they follow. You can probably measure this by not only the amount of people that follow him, but also the amount of people that want him to lose. Still not convinced? Hatton vs Castillo will be on TV, while Cotto/Judah will be on PPV. Sure that doesnt mean anything, but its still a good measuring stick. Still not convinced? Cotto will make more money than Judah in their fight; and if Cotto and Margo both win, they have agreed to fight each other. Cotto is also gonna make more money than Margo if that fight happens. Sure he is not on that level yet; and if he beats both Margo and Judah, he will still not be on PBF and DLH status. But like I said, he will be on the verge of becoming a superstar. If he wins against those two back to back, I am sure the big names will come looking for him(Mosley,PBF,etc,). And if he beats one of those(or even if he loses but puts on a great show), he will become a superstar. Ofcourse; that can be shattered with one punch, but its possible that he becomes one. Personally, I believe he will.

With his punching power, his heart, and his flaws he will become a superstar imo.His fights are almost always exciting because of all the reasons I have just listed.His chin is a flaw but he always comes back to ko his opponets after being hurt sounds an awful like Felix Trinidad doesn't it and he was a superstar.

If both Margo and Cotto win their next fights, they have already agreed to fight each other.(ofcourse, that can always change). Nevertheless, seems to me that Cottos camp has already decided that this is the year Cotto needs to step up (about time dammit) and I for one am pretty excited. If Cotto beats Judah and Margo back to back(which I think he can), he will be right on the verge of superstardomn. define superstardomn? Mayweather big? I guess you define that monetarily by ppv draw and purse numbers but what about fanbase and ticket sales, what level is Cotto on now? If he beats Zab I can't see him moving ahead of margarito in ratings

If both Margo and Cotto win their next fights, they have already agreed to fight each other.(ofcourse, that can always change). Nevertheless, seems to me that Cottos camp has already decided that this is the year Cotto needs to step up (about time dammit) and I for one am pretty excited. If Cotto beats Judah and Margo back to back(which I think he can), he will be right on the verge of superstardomn. That's been the most accurate and insightful for my taste.. :fing02:

If both Margo and Cotto win their next fights, they have already agreed to fight each other.(ofcourse, that can always change). Nevertheless, seems to me that Cottos camp has already decided that this is the year Cotto needs to step up (about time dammit) and I for one am pretty excited. If Cotto beats Judah and Margo back to back(which I think he can), he will be right on the verge of superstardomn.

My friend who is a big Miguel Cotto fan admitted to me recently he felt there were questions about Mr. Cotto's career potential long before the Torres fight. He told me Miguel is slow, and doesn't appear to be a naturally fluid puncher.. :eek: I was surprised by this talk. He told me he's starting to have doubts about the fight with Zab Judah and he's a little angry with Cotto and his people for taking the fight. Me personally - I honestly don't know that much about Miguel Cotto.. I just know what I've seen. I have watched the entire careers of many of today's superstars. One thing you notice about almost all of them: At lighter weights, as they were coming up; men like Oscar De La Hoya, Felix Trinidad, Floyd Mayweather, Kostya Tszyu, Shane Mosley and even Arturo Gatti were blowing out the competition. Early KO's, highlight reel exchanges, and all intensive dominance. I've seen some of his early fights and some of his most recent - but I am not as familiar with Miguel Cotto. I know I haven't seen any performances that rate with the men I've mentioned above. But, the man does have a very impressive KO percentage. Do we have any Miguel Cotto experts here? Is Miguel Cotto truly the next "Superstar?" Yo, u know my take on Cotto man! Ive been a fan since day 1 and im sold on him, i feel he is already a superstar but not on the level of an Oscar or such! He has time and the right oppenents available to make this happen tho! I view Cotto (without much proof at all to be fair!) As the best man in the best division!

Just wondering what comparrison can you make between Oscar and Felix. Oscar did fight fighters that Felix totally blew out..........or didn't he? Yea and Tito was dropped by much lesser opponent than DLH. So I guess we can argue all day about it, I just think when it's all said and done, DLH will be remembered as the better fighter. As far as Cotto, the bottom line is we don't know yet what he can do. This year will be a make or break year for Cotto and to see if he belongs in the elite group of fighters int hat division. There's alot names in that weight class that would make for interesting fights with Cotto, the question is, when will his camp take the risk and get the fights signed?