If the "Soviet Union" allowed their boxers to turn Pro, what would it have been like

What I'm implying is that if you have two men of the same boxing weight class they are similar enough already for their genetic differences not to play a major role. ;) Take a Russian heavyweight, take a Nigerian heavyweight. They have different genetics, but they both have the body of a heavyweight. Hence I am implying that if you take those two and train them the same way their natural genetical advantages/disatvanges by the time they reach the same level of training will be of no significance. I personaly am not build to run, I'm western Ukrainian. Any type of leg exercise for me results in exponential growth of my thigh muscles. They get quite large and its no way to run when you have thick thighs. I phsysicaly cant help it. My legs simply grow a lot when I take up running and other leg work. But boxing is really the sport were genetical advantages/disatvanges stop to mater. Sure the African might be faster by "default" on 'average' but the Euro many times will have more strength on 'average'. If you ask me, it's a balance. Besides, once again, these differences are small enough for them not to really affect the weather in the ring. Another random fact that I heard a while ago, something like over 50% of African-Americans have "white" blood somewhere down the line. Actually I believe the number was more along the lines of 80%. That would explain the relativly light complexion of African Americans in comparison to Africans, neglecting the different environments because Africans living in colder territories, such as Europe even after a few generations still maintan a very dark complexion. And as been stated previously, race, especialy in boxing, is overrated. And the only reason I believe it made its way into boxing is because of politics and extreme right wing views that society likes to take on once in a while. I see your point now clearly; I misunderstood what you had meant. I agree with you completely.

You can not make an elite weightlifter be an elite marathone runner. This is impossible. The analogy is that you can not make a pull horse into an Arabic race horse. What I'm implying is that if you have two men of the same boxing weight class they are similar enough already for their genetic differences not to play a major role. ;) Take a Russian heavyweight, take a Nigerian heavyweight. They have different genetics, but they both have the body of a heavyweight. Hence I am implying that if you take those two and train them the same way their natural genetical advantages/disatvanges by the time they reach the same level of training will be of no significance. I personaly am not build to run, I'm western Ukrainian. Any type of leg exercise for me results in exponential growth of my thigh muscles. They get quite large and its no way to run when you have thick thighs. I phsysicaly cant help it. My legs simply grow a lot when I take up running and other leg work. But boxing is really the sport were genetical advantages/disatvanges stop to mater. Sure the African might be faster by "default" on 'average' but the Euro many times will have more strength on 'average'. If you ask me, it's a balance. Besides, once again, these differences are small enough for them not to really affect the weather in the ring. Another random fact that I heard a while ago, something like over 50% of African-Americans have "white" blood somewhere down the line. Actually I believe the number was more along the lines of 80%. That would explain the relativly light complexion of African Americans in comparison to Africans, neglecting the different environments because Africans living in colder territories, such as Europe even after a few generations still maintan a very dark complexion. And as been stated previously, race, especialy in boxing, is overrated. And the only reason I believe it made its way into boxing is because of politics and extreme right wing views that society likes to take on once in a while.

As I said, feminine man is a flavor of the month, as Hulk Hogan would say. Right now, the Bruce Willis type of guy is coming back as a symbol --- unshaven, middleaged and tough as nails. And besides, it is only young girls that like feminine boys(well mostly) LOL!!! Don't you know guys like me never go out of style. :D

In 2006, people usually seek out wealthy or attractive people to marry. The result is a higher % of the population that is rich and attractive. There are more millionaires than ever now, and I honestly think there are more beautiful people as well. Think of all those gorgeous as fuck women you see in magazines that you've never heard of. Go back to the 1950's and try to find THAT MANY girls who were THAT HOT. We're getting prettier and that's it. This is what our race is evolving into. Even women are more into scrawny but attractive men than physically strong but not so handsome men. I'm not saying all are like that, but it seems to be a growing trend. Look at the build of male movie stars who represent the physical ideal. Effeminate, good looking, and physically unimposing. If we're evolving, it's not towards stronger or faster but more attractive. We're more petty and image obsessed than ever. Women are definitely getting better looking...girls body's today are fucking amazing...there are some girls that don't even workout, yet they have thick, tight, thighs and ass, nice breasts, and a pretty face...not sure if it is the food or if it is the genes that are improving. For the feminine Male, it is a trend, at least it had better be or America is in deep shit...Rome fell because of the "Pussification", America is going through it now.

I realize that the thread went a little off the original question but check out this site for all the amateur champs since 1904. http://www.hickoksports.com/history/boxolymp.shtml By the way, the Soviet block approved of their boxers to compete in 1950, I believe. All the fighters from "URS" are the Soviet fighters up until the 90's, when all the URS fighters became RUS, UZB, UKR, etc. What is clear from those results, is that amateurs elite fighters were a lot more diverse, while Cubans kicked pretty much everybody's ass. So, to answer the original question, the professional ranks would be a lot different, US fighters would not be the only force out there for so many years and it would not be such a shock to see a whole bunch of Easter European fighters to become such a force overnight. I'll tell you what though, when Castro's regime ends and Cubans are able to compete on the professional level, we're all in deep shit.

Kid Kaplan

In 2006, people usually seek out wealthy or attractive people to marry. The result is a higher % of the population that is rich and attractive. There are more millionaires than ever now, and I honestly think there are more beautiful people as well. Think of all those gorgeous as fuck women you see in magazines that you've never heard of. Go back to the 1950's and try to find THAT MANY girls who were THAT HOT. We're getting prettier and that's it. This is what our race is evolving into. Even women are more into scrawny but attractive men than physically strong but not so handsome men. I'm not saying all are like that, but it seems to be a growing trend. Look at the build of male movie stars who represent the physical ideal. Effeminate, good looking, and physically unimposing. If we're evolving, it's not towards stronger or faster but more attractive. We're more petty and image obsessed than ever.

Regarding Cuba... I believe had the Cubans entered, we'd be looking at a very balanced playing field. Their mindset is different and they tackle boxing technique from different angles. There are so many international boxing tournaments where the Cuban team is always feared and eyed. Cuba's boxing trainers are also in demand in lots of countries because of their ways. Imagine a counterpart of Joel Casamayor in every weight class. Damn.

Abe Atell, this is a very good thread you have here. Very intelligent discussion going on since page 1. :) I think the gene factor will really play a part in the parts of sports where weight is not put into different classes. In boxing, I think the division into weight classes negates much of theadvantages that "genetically blessed" races have. Maybe it all evens out in the end. The strengths and weaknesses of different genes all balance out that's why you won't see all the good and bad traits in one person in any weight class. The degree and type of schooling to follow in the fistic art will now be considered to fit a given fighter with given traits.

There isn't some superior race ruling over us and forcing us to mate with specific individuals in order to produce offspring who are good at boxing or whatever. Are you sure? ... lol

What you're talking about is manmade unnatural selection, purposely breeding individuals of one species that possess traits you want in a new breed with others who possess those traits, over and over again until you arrive at a completely new breed of animal. That does not happen with human beings. There isn't some superior race ruling over us and forcing us to mate with specific individuals in order to produce offspring who are good at boxing or whatever. Really? Marrying for "Love", I would say that might be a New thing, at least on the larger scale...people have always married for breeding purposes.

What you're talking about is manmade unnatural selection, purposely breeding individuals of one species that possess traits you want in a new breed with others who possess those traits, over and over again until you arrive at a completely new breed of animal. That does not happen with human beings. There isn't some superior race ruling over us and forcing us to mate with specific individuals in order to produce offspring who are good at boxing or whatever.

Abe, You cannot seriously compare dog breeds to human ethnicities. The difference, genetic wise, between two entirely different breeds of dogs is so vast compared to the genetic difference between humans of different ethnicities. That isn't a valid comparison at all. Really? then why did the Slave Masters conclude they could when they bred "Slaves" ? How did we get the "AMerican Pitbull"?

it would be steroid abusers fighting superior american fighters, a la Rocky IV.

Abe, You cannot seriously compare dog breeds to human ethnicities. The difference, genetic wise, between two entirely different breeds of dogs is so vast compared to the genetic difference between humans of different ethnicities. That isn't a valid comparison at all.

Well sure people from different regions of the world develop to survive in their environment. Look at Africans look at Scandinavias, Central Euros etc. Who you see running marathons, some skinny dude from Ethiopia. Who you see pulling trains at strongman? Poles, Ukrainians... However take both and train them in the same place with same trainers and the end result will be the same. You can not make an elite weightlifter be an elite marathone runner. This is impossible. The analogy is that you can not make a pull horse into an Arabic race horse.

Well sure people from different regions of the world develop to survive in their environment. Look at Africans look at Scandinavias, Central Euros etc. Who you see running marathons, some skinny dude from Ethiopia. Who you see pulling trains at strongman? Poles, Ukrainians... However take both and train them in the same place with same trainers and the end result will be the same. Initialy certain people have strength and weakneses over others, but once you are proffesional and start to concentrate on one sport one task those differences get smaller and smaller. I guess the argument always is that africans are "faster" then euros, well euros are "stronger" then africans. You need both in boxing. It all balances eventualy. I heard it was only actually a small region that have this type of talent...I was also reading about that Ponce De Leon fighter, and his people are supposedly historically known for their stamina. A Latvian women won this year in the women's competition in NY. Genes still play a role. Take dogs for example, Greyhound vs a Lab, who is faster? Greyhound vs German Shepherd, who is stronger? I am saying there can be a "slight" difference per/average. Like in Football, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders, Tomilson, etc. Where's my "White" Running Back? maybe coaches just don't play "White" people, I don't know. I don't know, I could be stretching it with ignorance, and be wrong, but lets get some talent in there then. World's a different place now though, Steroids/Hormones have taken over.

What about Benny Leonard and Stanley Ketchel and Jim Jeffries and Gene Tunney and Harry Greb and Mickey Walker and Jimmy Wilde.......etc? Don't get me wrong, I am not saying African Americans are "Superior", NO, but there does seem to be "something" with a slight advantage per family. Notice you put Benny Leonard, I actually like to use him as an example of great fighters...also like to use him as proof that "Jews" can fight, although I have mixed opinions on this considering if being Jewish is actually an ethnic group or just a belief system, but that is another topic. Kind of like in Football (NFL): there will always be fast "White" athletes, but if you look at it, at that level, who have bigger numbers per (average). Or basketball.. Maybe it is specific training from a young age that helps also, not sure. But, when an Coach says, "We need more SPEED," you think he is referring to something?

Well sure people from different regions of the world develop to survive in their environment. Look at Africans look at Scandinavias, Central Euros etc. Who you see running marathons, some skinny dude from Ethiopia. Who you see pulling trains at strongman? Poles, Ukrainians... However take both and train them in the same place with same trainers and the end result will be the same. Initialy certain people have strength and weakneses over others, but once you are proffesional and start to concentrate on one sport one task those differences get smaller and smaller. I guess the argument always is that africans are "faster" then euros, well euros are "stronger" then africans. You need both in boxing. It all balances eventualy.

Race......is overrated. ;)