Gatti v. Vargas: Hall of Fame Worthiness

Yes, B level. Ward is C level by the way. Winky is A level and hall of famer. I rather take a win over Winky ANY day than a win over any of those. Tracy Patterson Gabriel Ruelas Leo Dorin Jesse James Leija Micky Ward No one great, just a bunch of B Level catchers.

No, Hopkins has great talent and dominated the middleweight division like only 2 or three others have been able to do. He cleaned out the division, ducked no one, and fought with wonderful talent. Gatti has never been a dominant champion, never even held a P4P ranking. That you're trying to draw parallels between the two is disheartening. I wasn't comparing them at all. I was simply saying that holding a linear title over time is an accomplishment. Hopkins is a superb fighter way out of Gatti's league. But I would say that even if he never beat DLH, Trinidad, or Tarver. I was simply using him as an example to say that retaining titles is something I factor into HOF consideration,

I see your point, but engage in a hypothetical for me. IF Bernard Hopkins never fought Trinidad or DLH (substitute the #1 contender at MW at the time) and his career played out the same. He would have been a HOF fighter simply for defending the MW belt 20 times even before he beat Tarver. So getting a linear championship is jazz, but holding it means something to me. No, Hopkins has great talent and dominated the middleweight division like only 2 or three others have been able to do. He cleaned out the division, ducked no one, and fought with wonderful talent. Gatti has never been a dominant champion, never even held a P4P ranking. That you're trying to draw parallels between the two is disheartening.

And what are Gatti's accomplishments and who has he beaten :rolleyes: ? Tracy Patterson Gabriel Ruelas Leo Dorin Jesse James Leija Micky Ward No one great, just a bunch of B Level catchers.

I disagree. He still would have no marquee names to his resume. All that talk of linear champ is jazz. I see your point, but engage in a hypothetical for me. IF Bernard Hopkins never fought Trinidad or DLH (substitute the #1 contender at MW at the time) and his career played out the same. He would have been a HOF fighter simply for defending the MW belt 20 times even before he beat Tarver. So getting a linear championship is jazz, but holding it means something to me.

I disagree. He still would have no marquee names to his resume. All that talk of linear champ is jazz. This is why I made the post. I am in total agreement with you that Vargas may have been the shooting star that burned out faster but that was because he burned brighter than Gatti ever did/could. Vargas was considered a top opponent for DLH, Trinidad, even Mosley. Gatti is a sacraficial lamb for big name fighters like DLH; Mayweather; etc. If Gatti were to win this weekend, he would be closer to an equal with Vargas. Not that Baldomir represents an elite opponent but it gives him the right to claim a linear championship in a weight class.

And what are Gatti's accomplishments and who has he beaten :rolleyes: ? Dude HOF is all about accomplishments nothing else. You have a lot of IFs in there :p Just lay out all what these 2 boxers have accomplished and you'll have a clear indication if they'll qualify or not. :)

Dude HOF is all about accomplishments nothing else. You have a lot of IFs in there :p Just lay out all what these 2 boxers have accomplished and you'll have a clear indication if they'll qualify or not. :) If you read the beginning of the post you will see that I don't think either make it. I was sort of playing devil's advocate there by trying to show that Vargas should be a lot closer than Gatti. With a little different luck or management he might be a surefire HOFer today. But that is not how it went down as you rightly point out.

But part of what made Vargas not really reach his potential was because he took on too much too soon. That IS respectable. Gatti on the otherhand never had it. Never was an elite fighter. Vargas was an elite fighter and top pound for pound in his day. People dissing Vargas give me the impression that they haven't been watching boxing for a long time. This is why I made the post. I am in total agreement with you that Vargas may have been the shooting star that burned out faster but that was because he burned brighter than Gatti ever did/could. Vargas was considered a top opponent for DLH, Trinidad, even Mosley. Gatti is a sacraficial lamb for big name fighters like DLH; Mayweather; etc. If Gatti were to win this weekend, he would be closer to an equal with Vargas. Not that Baldomir represents an elite opponent but it gives him the right to claim a linear championship in a weight class.

Fernando beat Quartey and Winky. Both are better than Gatti and better than anyone Gatti has beaten. How the hell is Gatti still in the running but Vargas isn't? There's no way Vargas can be a HOFamer. He won some good one but lost all his big fights. Gatti is still argueable and still have a better chance especially if he beats Baldo this weekend. But I think neither of them deserves to be in the HOF. They are just well loved exciting fighters but nothing really exceptional in their accomplishments.

But part of what made Vargas not really reach his potential was because he took on too much too soon. That IS respectable. Gatti on the otherhand never had it. Never was an elite fighter. Vargas was an elite fighter and top pound for pound in his day. People dissing Vargas give me the impression that they haven't been watching boxing for a long time. Other people have told me the Hall of Fame lets pretty much everybody in and it isn't based on career success but rather fan popularity and such. If it was based on actually being an exception fighter, neither one of these guys should come anywhere close to Hall of Fame status.

Other people have told me the Hall of Fame lets pretty much everybody in and it isn't based on career success but rather fan popularity and such. If it was based on actually being an exception fighter, neither one of these guys should come anywhere close to Hall of Fame status. Factoring out all of the popularity and stuff and sticking to boxing... I don't think Vargas is all that far off. If Trinidad doesn't low blow him, he had a very good chance of winning that fight. If he wins that fight, maybe he performs better down the line. For example, if he lost to DLH and split with Mosley. So basically if Trinidad follows the rules of boxing and general sportsmanship, Vargas might have made it.

Other people have told me the Hall of Fame lets pretty much everybody in and it isn't based on career success but rather fan popularity and such. If it was based on actually being an exception fighter, neither one of these guys should come anywhere close to Hall of Fame status.

I think Gatti is the more worthy, but not by much. Gatti won his first title at 130 from Patterson, who won a title vacated by Genaro Hernandez. Then he took a 140 title vacated by Tszyu. Not the most impressive credentials. He has given us some great fights, but WTF hes never beaten a great fighter. 7 losses is also kinda eye catching, especially with Solomon, Robinson twice, and Ward in the L column. Vargas simply was moved too quick and as a result burned out early. He had world class talent, I mean the guy was special. He was an awesome offensive fighter with incredible speed. He didn't accomplish as much as he could've as a result of his hardluck dossier at a young age, so I don't think he qualifies. I don't think either should be in, but nowadays they seem to be letting them all in.

I dont think either make it in.

So you're saying that Vargas is in in your opinion? I like his quality wins, but I think his career was too short and he lacks a true BIG win. I would say it was Winky but when he fought Winky, he wasn't as highly regarded and IMO wasn't as good as he is now.

And how is that different from Gatti? If he beats Baldomir, he may have a case with now winning his third title in his third weight division, and Baldomir is the linear welterweight champion by beating Judah, so technically Gatti will not only be the welterweight champion, but the linear champion. Vargas has a tough case. He wont make it in. What did he fight....33 times? He has a couple of good wins over good fighters, but lost every single huge fight of his career. Unless he does something great at 160, I dont see him going anywhere near the hall of fame.

Quartey and Winky are both better than Gatti and better than anybody Gatti has beaten. Fernando beat them both. Vargas will make it if anyone makes it.

If he beats Baldomir, he may have a case with now winning his third title in his third weight division, and Baldomir is the linear welterweight champion by beating Judah, so technically Gatti will not only be the welterweight champion, but the linear champion. Vargas has a tough case. He wont make it in. What did he fight....33 times? He has a couple of good wins over good fighters, but lost every single huge fight of his career. Unless he does something great at 160, I dont see him going anywhere near the hall of fame. Good points but who did Gatti beat in a huge fight (in terms of level of competition)? Even if he beats Baldomir and wins a linear title, he still won't have a signature HOF win on his resume. I think that Vargas' wins over Wright, Quartay, and Campas are more impressive than Gatti's 3 best wins.

If he beats Baldomir, he may have a case with now winning his third title in his third weight division, and Baldomir is the linear welterweight champion by beating Judah, so technically Gatti will not only be the welterweight champion, but the linear champion. Vargas has a tough case. He wont make it in. What did he fight....33 times? He has a couple of good wins over good fighters, but lost every single huge fight of his career. Unless he does something great at 160, I dont see him going anywhere near the hall of fame.