Media hype - the art of fooling the public!

It is not about nationality. A dominant fight is indeed better than a one-punch knockout. Better to watch and says more about the fighters. If calzaghe had knocked Lacy out in 2 we could ask about what might happen in a rematch. When he beats him 119-105 you don't ask about rematches. That is definitive. Exactly good point!

It is not about nationality. A dominant fight is indeed better than a one-punch knockout. Better to watch and says more about the fighters. If calzaghe had knocked Lacy out in 2 we could ask about what might happen in a rematch. When he beats him 119-105 you don't ask about rematches. That is definitive.

If Lacy was the Brit and Calzaghe was the American, you wouldn't be saying that on that particular fight. We all have our own biased nature. No, I am a boxing fan regardless of nationality, of course I was routing for Joe as a Brit doesn't mean I dont route for fighters of other nations! I have watched, parcipitated and coached boxing all my life and understand fully the difficulties in effectively mastering the art of boxing, many fighters never master these skills, so when I see them executed so well against an opponent who is defined as the best so called at that weight then I am going to appreciate and applaud those skills. PBF is American but I could watch him all day, for me he is the most skilled fighter on the planet currently, my idols are Ali, Leonard, Hagler and Robinson, all skilled fighters non are British. I boxed for 19 years at various levels and was classed more as a pressure fighter with a punch but I always attempted to master the art of boxing and still do, I am now a coach, I train my young fighters to work at distance, footwork, combinations, head and body movement. I make them concentrate on the technique of delivering a punch, every type of punch, of slipping and parrying a punch, on making an opponent miss, of turning an opponent etc etc etc. Therefore I stand by my statement, I am a fan of the art of boxing regardless of nationality!

Thats true, I would rather see the art of boxing executed well as it was on Saturday, to hit someone with three, four and five punch combinations and make them miss by controlling the range, angles or head and body movement is so rare these days especially at that level. If Lacy was the Brit and Calzaghe was the American, you wouldn't be saying that on that particular fight. We all have our own biased nature.

This goes to show you how powerful a matchmaker can be...Jeff was matched PERFECTLY and as a result people thought he was the next Tyson.

Fans are very easy to fall in love with power. If you have one-punch knockout power, fans will overlook your flaws because they know you can end the fight in one instance. It happened to Tyson, Pacquiao, Lacy, Peter, etc. It's just the nature of boxing fans in general, you can't blame them. Thats true, I would rather see the art of boxing executed well as it was on Saturday, to hit someone with three, four and five punch combinations and make them miss by controlling the range, angles or head and body movement is so rare these days especially at that level.

Fans are very easy to fall in love with power. If you have one-punch knockout power, fans will overlook your flaws because they know you can end the fight in one instance. It happened to Tyson, Pacquiao, Lacy, Peter, etc. It's just the nature of boxing fans in general, you can't blame them.

i saw lacy in loaded magazine,fhm and the magazine where trying to say he is a legend and shit,but true boxing fans knew he was shit,in year 2000 calzaghe was fighting omar sheika,in the same year lacy was still an amateur at the olympics...in all of lacy fights he has never outboxed anyone,he just looks for big shots(power)... his speed is shit also...if joe wants credit he needs to beat tarver..not an old roy jones jnr!!

Roy fought guys better than Tarver earlier in his career. The public wasn't clamoring for him to fight Tarver. Tarver was clamoring for him to fight Tarver. People really thought Roy would lose to Ruiz, Toney, etc. and Roy did fantastically. If someone judges Roy by his fights vs Tarver, that's wrong. Joe is skilled and capable, but now he has to act on it. Will he? He could have avoided the bad press he received had he merely tried to make some bigger fights in the U.S. instead of England, and if he had not donr stupid things like getting injured one week before a fight. You're 100% right I think when you say the fight spoke for itself. There's nothing to say. Calzaghe is a very good fighter. No other fighter was able to dominate and sustain success over Lacy. Joe was, and I think it was because Joe is a step above Lacy and probably most other 168lbers. But it can't stop here. He has further validation to do. If he let's his career stagnate like Hopkins did after Tito, that would just be criminal. I kind of agree with some of your comparisons and I see the point you're trying to make. But at the end of the day, and I think you know this, the only way Joe can be compared on close to the same level with Roy is if Joe beats some of those guys I mentioned and does so impressively. He doesn't have a lot of time to do it. Roy had already beaten Toney, Hill, McCallum, Griffin, and Hopkins earlier in his career. Joe is in a bigger squeeze to prove himself than Roy was. If Roy would have retired after Ruiz, he would be ranked top 10 p4p all time by more people (right now, very few people would say that). Yep 100% agree!

Roy fought guys better than Tarver earlier in his career. The public wasn't clamoring for him to fight Tarver. Tarver was clamoring for him to fight Tarver. People really thought Roy would lose to Ruiz, Toney, etc. and Roy did fantastically. If someone judges Roy by his fights vs Tarver, that's wrong. Joe is skilled and capable, but now he has to act on it. Will he? He could have avoided the bad press he received had he merely tried to make some bigger fights in the U.S. instead of England, and if he had not donr stupid things like getting injured one week before a fight. You're 100% right I think when you say the fight spoke for itself. There's nothing to say. Calzaghe is a very good fighter. No other fighter was able to dominate and sustain success over Lacy. Joe was, and I think it was because Joe is a step above Lacy and probably most other 168lbers. But it can't stop here. He has further validation to do. If he let's his career stagnate like Hopkins did after Tito, that would just be criminal. I kind of agree with some of your comparisons and I see the point you're trying to make. But at the end of the day, and I think you know this, the only way Joe can be compared on close to the same level with Roy is if Joe beats some of those guys I mentioned and does so impressively. He doesn't have a lot of time to do it. Roy had already beaten Toney, Hill, McCallum, Griffin, and Hopkins earlier in his career. Joe is in a bigger squeeze to prove himself than Roy was. If Roy would have retired after Ruiz, he would be ranked top 10 p4p all time by more people (right now, very few people would say that).

The problem is you can't get respect just because you beat guys who were "former champs". Roy Jones WAS a p4p "god", but no one in their right mind says that for his present career. I think you know that though. Roy's career has not been similar to Joe's because Roy had real NAMES on his ledger, even if there weren't a LOT they were there. Joe has been a man with no past to speak of, so it's less easy to forgive him for fighting average guys late in his career. If Joe beat Toney, Hopkins, McCallum, Hill, Woods, Ruiz, and Tarver, then I'm pretty damned sure Joe would go down as a GREAT. All that said, Joe has gained a bit more respect with this recent performance. He still has work to do. He says he will come to the U.S., so let's see if he is for real about that. Unfortunately, he says he wants to fight Roy, and that will do nothing for his legacy right now. In fact, it's really a big risk because if Roy somehow turns back the clock just a bit and Joe has his injuries occur then Joe could really lose EVERYTHING he gained by beating Lacy. Joe needs to keep Roy Jones' name out of his mouth. Joe needs to be fighting a SELECT group of guys at this late stage in his career. These names include: Mikkel Kessler, Antonio Tarver (who Joe has mentioned, to his credit), Glen Johnson, Clinton Woods (Joe mentioned), Thomasz Adamek, Paul Briggs, and Jermain Taylor. If Joe just manages to fight a few of these guys, he still can go down as a true GREAT, not just good historical figure in boxing. Slighty disagree on some and agree on other, beating the likes of Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Brewer, Veit and Mitchell may not set the world alight agreed but it does show that Calzaghe is a more than capable fighter who deserves respect, my point was that the media and fans did not show this respect to Calzaghe but raved about Lacy who had an even worse resume considering he fought some of the same opponents as Calzaghe apart from they were way out of their prime by the time they met Lacy! My whole point being that a 'good' champion with a solid and lengthy record was dismissed as if he was a fraud, any intelligent boxing fan could see that Joe was a talented fighter who had taken a 'safer road' for whatever reason, the hype led this fight not reason, the outcome speaks for itself. My comparrison with Jones was only to highlight an exceptional talent who never quite rose to the heights that he was aiming for and when he took the fights that the public wanted he was past his best and ended up being stopped. I have no doubt that a young Roy Jones would have beaten all comers around those divisions but he took lots of easy pay days along the way that slighty tarnished his record, as has Joe Calzaghe!

what is sooooo wrong with hyping up a guy who is exciting and winning fights? you fools will be the first to complain that Boxing is a dying sport, but media hype for big fights is what keeps things going...if no one was hyped up, then we'd have no "big" fights... if a fighter is ripping through opponens with power or speed, undefeated, gaining popularity in his hometown...it is only natural to think of that fighter as special... that is the way Boxing works...NO one is wrong for believing in Lacy...NO one is wrong for believing in Calzaghe... why? because in the end, this is Boxing, and as much as fans "THINK" they know.....ANYTHING can happen in that ring... I'm not suggesting that the hype is wrong only misplaced, boxing is made of hype and I totally agree with your point, my point is that in this case it was totally misguided and ill informed,as there has to be a degree of intelliegence when matching a fight, doesn't there? Or we would put Amir Khan in Ricky Hatton now! (exaggerated point) Jeff himself has said that he believed he would blow Calzaghe away, why did he believe that, becuase thats what the hype was saying. Hype sells tickets therefore its a double edged sword!

what is sooooo wrong with hyping up a guy who is exciting and winning fights? you fools will be the first to complain that Boxing is a dying sport, but media hype for big fights is what keeps things going...if no one was hyped up, then we'd have no "big" fights... if a fighter is ripping through opponens with power or speed, undefeated, gaining popularity in his hometown...it is only natural to think of that fighter as special... that is the way Boxing works...NO one is wrong for believing in Lacy...NO one is wrong for believing in Calzaghe... why? because in the end, this is Boxing, and as much as fans "THINK" they know.....ANYTHING can happen in that ring... Hmm...you put things in perspective. That was a great post.

what is sooooo wrong with hyping up a guy who is exciting and winning fights? you fools will be the first to complain that Boxing is a dying sport, but media hype for big fights is what keeps things going...if no one was hyped up, then we'd have no "big" fights... if a fighter is ripping through opponens with power or speed, undefeated, gaining popularity in his hometown...it is only natural to think of that fighter as special... that is the way Boxing works...NO one is wrong for believing in Lacy...NO one is wrong for believing in Calzaghe... why? because in the end, this is Boxing, and as much as fans "THINK" they know.....ANYTHING can happen in that ring...

If Lacy wants to test his streght and measure he should go down in wieght and fight people like Vargas Winky and Taylor that will bring him big name and money

Joe had fought and beaten half a dozen or so former world champions in his defences and whilst I agree that he had never had a defining fight he was easily derserved of respect for his long reign and excellent record The problem is you can't get respect just because you beat guys who were "former champs". Hopkins fought many defenses that were very lame. That's why Hopkins did not get respect until later in his career when he destroyed Tito and De La Hoya. It gets you SOME respect, but not a high amount. You can't really call someone's record excellent just because there are no losses. It has to have a few great names or a good amount of recognizable names. Joe had neither, and the same applies to Lacy to be fair. If you go the route of staying in your weight class then you have to look GREAT vs everyone you face if there isn't great TALENT across the ring from you. Joe had major issues against Kabry Salem and other no-name fodder. Both Lacyand Joe beat SOME decent fighters, but there was PLENTY of reasons on BOTH sides for fans to accuse the other guy of being untested. You don't get BIG respect for getting defenses alone or having a flashy record. If such was true, then Rocky Marciano would be considered the best ever. But we know his opposition had some flaws. Roy Jones who many class as a P4P god had a similar career in my opinion but always (rightly so) got recognition! Dont forget Joe had more KO's than Lacy had fights! Roy Jones WAS a p4p "god", but no one in their right mind says that for his present career. I think you know that though. Roy's career has not been similar to Joe's because Roy had real NAMES on his ledger, even if there weren't a LOT they were there. Joe has been a man with no past to speak of, so it's less easy to forgive him for fighting average guys late in his career. If Joe beat Toney, Hopkins, McCallum, Hill, Woods, Ruiz, and Tarver, then I'm pretty damned sure Joe would go down as a GREAT. All that said, Joe has gained a bit more respect with this recent performance. He still has work to do. He says he will come to the U.S., so let's see if he is for real about that. Unfortunately, he says he wants to fight Roy, and that will do nothing for his legacy right now. In fact, it's really a big risk because if Roy somehow turns back the clock just a bit and Joe has his injuries occur then Joe could really lose EVERYTHING he gained by beating Lacy. Joe needs to keep Roy Jones' name out of his mouth. Joe needs to be fighting a SELECT group of guys at this late stage in his career. These names include: Mikkel Kessler, Antonio Tarver (who Joe has mentioned, to his credit), Glen Johnson, Clinton Woods (Joe mentioned), Thomasz Adamek, Paul Briggs, and Jermain Taylor. If Joe just manages to fight a few of these guys, he still can go down as a true GREAT, not just good historical figure in boxing.

I see your point, what I am saying is that everyone jumped on the bandwagon over Lacy, to a layman outside of the States it seemed like Lacy had already taken the mantle, the media did play a huge part but I agree it was the fans who extended the hype. Onto Joe, whilst I agree that at first glance it would seem that Joe up until this point had fought no body I'd like to point out that Joe had fought and beaten half a dozen or so former world champions in his defences and whilst I agree that he had never had a defining fight he was easily derserved of respect for his long reign and excellent record but according to many (not all) it was a done deal! Like I said previously I myself had started to believe the hype around Lacy, I had seen him fight on three or four occasions and he looked awesome against opponents who stood their ground and tried to fight him, I foolishly left the rest to the opinions of the masses who stated he was unbeatable. I still fancied Joe on Saturday though becuase I had seen 90% of his fights and knew he could really fight given the right opponent but I still expected a war. I was shocked but elated (obviously) by the ease in which Joe dismantled Jeff, it looked so mismatched it was unbelievable and for the first 6 to 8 rounds I enjoyed the smugness of it all. However after round eight it dawned on me that this was a farce and that a decent honest fighter like Lacy was being humiliated and that he should never have been in the same ring as Calzaghe at least at this stage of his career. He must have been asking himself whilst Joe was ramming the punches in that this was not in the script, and it wasn't was it? The plan according to most was that Jeff would KO an ageing champion early on simply becuase he had never had a defining fight and he had problems from time to time with injury, no one told Joe though and he just rolled back the years and SHOWED that he belonged to be spoken about in the same breath as Roy Jones, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn etc and that just becuase he hadn't won a defining fight didn't mean he couldn't. Roy Jones who many class as a P4P god had a similar career in my opinion but always (rightly so) got recognition! Dont forget Joe had more KO's than Lacy had fights! Good posts. I can only agree that even though I had predicted a late KO/TKO for Calzaghe I was also beginning to have my doubts if Lacy perhaps was the real deal and not just hype as i first saw him as. How Lacy exactly achieved this status as favorite in many peoples eyes and a career defining fight for Calzaghe i don't know. From the reports i have read (I haven't seen the fight yet) Calzaghe completely dominated Lacy. But let us hope that perhaps Calzaghe will get some of the deserved recognition not only at home but also in America. It is true that he has spent much of his career fighting subpar opposition but i don't think that there has been any doubts (for people that has seen him) that he really posses fantastic skills in the ring.

I don't blame the media. Blame the fans. But, let's be reasonable here. There are reasons for the attitudes of some fans before the fight. Let's examine facts about the fight, before the fight: Lacy was 21-0, but had not fought any A-class fighters at all and struggled mightily with Omar Sheika. He showed his flaws in that he was easy to hit and loaded up a lot. At times, he threw great combos and was very focused. His power and chin was great, and caused people to be in awe of him, thereby limiting the fans' ability to critique him. In addition, there was the need for there to be an American force ay 168 lbs to unify the division since Joe had not done so. On the Calzaghe front, Joe had himself never beat any A-class fighters (Eubank was not A-class when Joe beat him). Joe was 40-0 but had never made an attempt to make his name known in the wider boxing market by fighting in the U.S. he looked good at times on American T.V. vs some solid fighters like Byron Mitchell, but he did this on the subpar network of Showtime, which has less outreach than HBO, and questionable events occured as Mitchell was stopped prematurely in many people's eyes. Joe also had a history of backing out of fights right before they were supposed to happen, causing people to not believe in his claims that top fighters were ducking him. So, we had a fight between two people who were not proven against A-class fighters, two guys who were not top ten p4p, and where the long reigning champ held only the WBO strap, was content to stay in his confined area, and was suppsoedly aging and frail. In light of this, it's understandable (whether it was wrong or not) why so many felt that the truck of a man in Lacy would be able to defeat Joe Calzaghe. I see your point, what I am saying is that everyone jumped on the bandwagon over Lacy, to a layman outside of the States it seemed like Lacy had already taken the mantle, the media did play a huge part but I agree it was the fans who extended the hype. Onto Joe, whilst I agree that at first glance it would seem that Joe up until this point had fought no body I'd like to point out that Joe had fought and beaten half a dozen or so former world champions in his defences and whilst I agree that he had never had a defining fight he was easily derserved of respect for his long reign and excellent record but according to many (not all) it was a done deal! Like I said previously I myself had started to believe the hype around Lacy, I had seen him fight on three or four occasions and he looked awesome against opponents who stood their ground and tried to fight him, I foolishly left the rest to the opinions of the masses who stated he was unbeatable. I still fancied Joe on Saturday though becuase I had seen 90% of his fights and knew he could really fight given the right opponent but I still expected a war. I was shocked but elated (obviously) by the ease in which Joe dismantled Jeff, it looked so mismatched it was unbelievable and for the first 6 to 8 rounds I enjoyed the smugness of it all. However after round eight it dawned on me that this was a farce and that a decent honest fighter like Lacy was being humiliated and that he should never have been in the same ring as Calzaghe at least at this stage of his career. He must have been asking himself whilst Joe was ramming the punches in that this was not in the script, and it wasn't was it? The plan according to most was that Jeff would KO an ageing champion early on simply becuase he had never had a defining fight and he had problems from time to time with injury, no one told Joe though and he just rolled back the years and SHOWED that he belonged to be spoken about in the same breath as Roy Jones, Chris Eubank, Nigel Benn etc and that just becuase he hadn't won a defining fight didn't mean he couldn't. Roy Jones who many class as a P4P god had a similar career in my opinion but always (rightly so) got recognition! Dont forget Joe had more KO's than Lacy had fights!

I don't blame the media. Blame the fans. But, let's be reasonable here. There are reasons for the attitudes of some fans before the fight. Let's examine facts about the fight, before the fight: Lacy was 21-0, but had not fought any A-class fighters at all and struggled mightily with Omar Sheika. He showed his flaws in that he was easy to hit and loaded up a lot. At times, he threw great combos and was very focused. His power and chin was great, and caused people to be in awe of him, thereby limiting the fans' ability to critique him. In addition, there was the need for there to be an American force ay 168 lbs to unify the division since Joe had not done so. On the Calzaghe front, Joe had himself never beat any A-class fighters (Eubank was not A-class when Joe beat him). Joe was 40-0 but had never made an attempt to make his name known in the wider boxing market by fighting in the U.S. he looked good at times on American T.V. vs some solid fighters like Byron Mitchell, but he did this on the subpar network of Showtime, which has less outreach than HBO, and questionable events occured as Mitchell was stopped prematurely in many people's eyes. Joe also had a history of backing out of fights right before they were supposed to happen, causing people to not believe in his claims that top fighters were ducking him. So, we had a fight between two people who were not proven against A-class fighters, two guys who were not top ten p4p, and where the long reigning champ held only the WBO strap, was content to stay in his confined area, and was suppsoedly aging and frail. In light of this, it's understandable (whether it was wrong or not) why so many felt that the truck of a man in Lacy would be able to defeat Joe Calzaghe.