i hope all the tyson haters in america r watchin espn classic

Dosen't the taste of Tyson's ball sack in your mouth ever get stale? Gomez attempted to put it nicely but you don't seem to get the drift. Tyson didn't make guys look like bums-they were! I know this will be over your head but here goes: Popularity doesn't mean great, what true boxing expert hails Tyson as one of the greatest? The best he gets is "lost potential", "what if", etc. The guys who love the taste of Tyson's "taint" are guys who think having a pit bull rather than paying child support makes them tough, "Scarface"-the remake is the greatest film ever, it's ok to sijng about the joys of raping women, taking drugs, gang bang'in & unemployment (as long as you are black/brown). So, it goes without saying that Tyson-the bad "boy" would be worthy of worship. Great fighters don't just wake up on day without balls, Tyson never had em. A down and dirty war in "85" would have ended the same way it did in "89" on-Tyson KO'd (again, he never lost a fight on his feet!). Do yourself a favor-detach your lips from "Mickey's scrote" & get a new hero-The "Rock" perhaps? That's the original "Rock", Hudson. Trevor Berbick, Tucker, Holmes, Spinks, Bruno, Thomas, all bums eh?.....yeah right....lol Just go away with you bullshit. These guys are all better than todays heavies, only Wlad and maybe Peter match up to them.

I always end up watching the Tillis fight. It was on again last night. Tyson looked anything but invincible in that fight. The reason Tyson and Rooney gave was that Mike was unsure he could go the distance and this was in his mind from the start of his career. When he couldn't knockout Tillis early, he pulled off the gas to conserve and used this fight as a test for his stamina. When he made it to the last round, Tyson's confidence had a boost because he found out he could reserve energy for an entire Pro fight. After this fight, Tyson's confidence went up, which it is supposed to since this is called gaining experience. You can also see from the time he was 18, to the time he was 20, he improved, and it would be the same for the coming years until he left Rooney in which case there was no more learning and proper training. Do you realize how many fighters we can take and use a fight against them for fights that weren't great? Nobody is invincible.

Count Patron I'm my mind a true champion doesn't fade after 3-4 years. So what would that leave us with Jack Dempsey, Marciano, and others? And is it about throwing your talent away/fading or is it losing as well while at the top after only a short period?

I'm my mind a true champion doesn't fade after 3-4 years. Lennox Lewis beat everyone that was somebody in the heavy weight division, can't say the same thing for Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was hot when he started off, but because of personal problems he diminished. One can't really speculate what would or would not have happened had his life been different. All there is, is what really happened and that is Tyson declined and the real champions had a field day with him. Tyson never had a respectable jab. He had good hand speed so he could get it out there sometimes, but nobody ever said look out for Tyson's jab. He wasn't a boxer, he was a slugger... sluggers only last so long in this sport. I'm my mind a true champion doesn't fade after 3-4 years Yes, at the end of the day, the majority will just look at numbers, but shouldn't we look at the entire story? Should we judge everybody the same, despite having to lead different lives, different obstacles, given different tools, etc.? How can we compare someone like Jack Johnson and all he had to go through with some others, and just at the end of the day, simply looking at numbers and not the entire story? Can we really compare someone like Tyson and Lewis with say Kassim Ouma? Sure, again, at the end of the day, many will just look at the numbers and even skill, which is fare to a point, but Kassim's rise to the top was much more impressive in my opinion, so maybe there can be another list made alongside the other. Even Tyson had advantages that others didn't along with having disadvantages and pressures placed early on that others didin't. Mike Tyson was hot when he started off, but because of personal problems he diminished. Yes, One of the weaknesses for Tyson, and this is from Torres, and you can even say evident with what Tyson did with his career, was that he never learned how to control his emotions. If you look at Lewis, he certainly was very mature early on, and this is a credit to his mother, whoever else was around teaching him, and of course himself. Lennox was smart in staying an amateur longer than expected, going back to win the Gold and gaining vast experience. When he turned pro, there wasn't a lot of pressure on him and he led his own career. And even though he probably didn't like it at first, it certainly helped being overlooked for so many years since it kept him motivated to rise above instead of gaining fame and fortune, respect and the title fast. Even though Lennox support system was always there throughout, his mother, there has to be credit given to him as well for keeping focused. In addition, I still think he is underrated by many. One can't really speculate what would or would not have happened had his life been different. All there is, is what really happened and that is Tyson declined and the real champions had a field day with him. The "what should be" never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no "what should be," there is only what is.” Lenny Bruce quote. This is true, Tyson burnt out quick. Tyson seemingly didn't know how to deal with the deaths in his camp and dealing with the pressures of being the Heavyweight Champion of the World, with Fame and Fortune at his age. So yes, Tyson's weakness came out when the pressure was on high. Without help from the right people, which two died {Cus and Jimmy} and the others like Rooney and Lott (and I'm not sure how those relationships changed, if they did after the other two died), Mike went off the track and crashed, kind of like him crashing into that tree with his car. At the end of the day, he made bad choices and will be to blame. He didn't have to leave Cayton and Rooney. If he was tired of the business, he could have stood up and said, "I'm retiring", something he threatened after the Spinks fight. Tyson never had a respectable jab. He had good hand speed so he could get it out there sometimes, but nobody ever said look out for Tyson's jab. He wasn't a boxer, he was a slugger... sluggers only last so long in this sport For Tyson's jab, it is underrated. Few talk about it because everything else over-shadows it, but anytime someone like Atlas or Rooney talk, they always mention the jab. If you go over his fights up until right before Spinks (since he didn't need it for that fight), he used it well and it was effective. It wasn't something he just threw out there either, it was meant to measure distance, and could push back his opponents head in order to setup the follow up punch. It is also a pain of the ass taking fast jabs to the face and not being able to do anything about it, so this was the other factor. Tyson was far from a slugger, he was a boxer first when he was with Rooney. Sluggers aren't practicing jabs, head movement, elusive ability, breaking opponents down with body-punches, and using 3-5 hit combinations with use of an arsenal of punches, all along using strategy to win.

I'm my mind a true champion doesn't fade after 3-4 years. Lennox Lewis beat everyone that was somebody in the heavy weight division, can't say the same thing for Mike Tyson.. Who was left for Tyson to beat after 1989?? He cleaned out the divison and ducked no one as undisputed champ.

I always end up watching the Tillis fight. It was on again last night. Tyson looked anything but invincible in that fight.

There is a difference between the Tyson that fought Lewis and Holyfield than the one that fought under Rooney. Tyson the boxer ended after Spinks. Again, people will continue to just look at one complete version of Tyson, which isn't fare. I don't do this with Ali either. Anybody that says Ali was the same after exile is blind. Any time there is this "Fantasy" matchup between Tyson and Ali, I always mention, take Tyson while he was with Rooney and Ali prior to his exile. The Tyson that fought Douglas and The Ali that fought Frazier is are not the same fighter. The problem with both is that they were young when they declined; Tyson because his life fell off out of boxing and he got rid of Rooney and Ali because he was forced into exile, which caused rust, because of his political stand. Look at Tyson's concentration on head-movement and combinations in his training while with the D'amato team. Who was there to train him like this after Rooney? For the jab, sure, a jab can be problems with any fighter, but this is why Tyson worked on timing and bobbing and weaving...something that declined after Rooney. Tucker had a decent jab which was fast, was 6'5, 82 inch reach, but Tyson still out-jabbed him. I'm my mind a true champion doesn't fade after 3-4 years. Lennox Lewis beat everyone that was somebody in the heavy weight division, can't say the same thing for Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was hot when he started off, but because of personal problems he diminished. One can't really speculate what would or would not have happened had his life been different. All there is, is what really happened and that is Tyson declined and the real champions had a field day with him. Tyson never had a respectable jab. He had good hand speed so he could get it out there sometimes, but nobody ever said look out for Tyson's jab. He wasn't a boxer, he was a slugger... sluggers only last so long in this sport.

Watching his brilliance at beat up Bums for 4 1/2 hours then get his salad tossed by Douglas, Tyson, and Lewis... then actually getting beat by bums for the last 1 1/2 hours? I didn't know Larry Holmes, Michael Spinks, Berbick, Bonecrusher Smith, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Terrel Biggs, Tony Tubbs, Frank Bruno X2, Carl "The Truth" Williams, Razor Ruddock X2, etc are all bums. Why even bring up the loss to Lewis when over 10 years past his best?

Yeah his resume is under-rated. But, Holmes was no longer a top HW, that much was evident. Larry Holmes was still tough enough to take away Ray Mercer's zero (0), 3 or 4 years after his loss to Tyson. the guy may not have been in his prime, but he had only lost to Michael Spinks.

I have no Idea how anyone can look at Tyson's resume and say he only beat bums. The man has names like Larry Holmes on there and has popped more fighters 0's than I dare to count. Yeah his resume is under-rated. But, Holmes was no longer a top HW, that much was evident.

I have no Idea how anyone can look at Tyson's resume and say he only beat bums. The man has names like Larry Holmes on there and has popped more fighters 0's than I dare to count.

Tyson was a great fighter, not so much a boxer... hence why he got into trouble when he came across boxers with an actual jab (Lennox Lewis/Evander Holyfield) There is a difference between the Tyson that fought Lewis and Holyfield than the one that fought under Rooney. Tyson the boxer ended after Spinks. Again, people will continue to just look at one complete version of Tyson, which isn't fare. I don't do this with Ali either. Anybody that says Ali was the same after exile is blind. Any time there is this "Fantasy" matchup between Tyson and Ali, I always mention, take Tyson while he was with Rooney and Ali prior to his exile. The Tyson that fought Douglas and The Ali that fought Frazier is are not the same fighter. The problem with both is that they were young when they declined; Tyson because his life fell off out of boxing and he got rid of Rooney and Ali because he was forced into exile, which caused rust, because of his political stand. Look at Tyson's concentration on head-movement and combinations in his training while with the D'amato team. Who was there to train him like this after Rooney? For the jab, sure, a jab can be problems with any fighter, but this is why Tyson worked on timing and bobbing and weaving...something that declined after Rooney. Tucker had a decent jab which was fast, was 6'5, 82 inch reach, but Tyson still out-jabbed him.

Watching his brilliance at beat up Bums for 4 1/2 hours then get his salad tossed by Douglas, Tyson, and Lewis... then actually getting beat by bums for the last 1 1/2 hours?I didn't know Douglas ate his ass...

Tyson was a great fighter, not so much a boxer... hence why he got into trouble when he came across boxers with an actual jab (Lennox Lewis/Evander Holyfield)

it matter's on what he weighed in at the weigh in and he was over 200 pounds. now thats case closed. ;) Vers, what was Spinks's weight by fight-night when he was a LH... Is it like now where they drain and then put on 10-15 pounds by fight time?

Damn.Throooooooooooooooooowback.

tyson could have been great. He was good for Boxing becuase he brought attention to the sport. America loves a train wreck. His potential was that of legends. He could have been the greatest ever. As it is .....he isn't. You can talk about how dominant he was and how he scared people,etc. The bottom line is that his greatest victories were against old man Holmes and light heavy Spinks. Bonecrusher,Tucker,Tillis and Green proved if you were not scared, Tyson went the other way. As it turned out, that was the truth. I'm not "hating" Tyson, I'm stating fact. He could have been the greatest fighter ever, instead he became my personal biggest dissapointment. This is why we have to throw Marciano out the window as well, since we do this with Tyson. Tyson's win over an undefeated, younger LH Spinks is better than any Marciano win, not to mention he actually fought true Heavyweights....so let us remember that Tyson threw his talent away. He is one fighter that you can point out to a young fighter and say "See, this is what happens when you get away from your training." Tyson continued to get better from 18-20, 20-22, so anybody that rips certain fights at certain points, say 19, doesn't follow his growth. Remember, were talking about a fighter that was only 22 when he threw his career away and stopped learning because he didn't have the proper trainer/training. The difference between Tyson in the Bruno fight from before is big enough to say he slid. The Douglas fight many like to point out where he looked like shit is true, but again, Tyson wasn't trained properly. Excuse, well, we can blame Tyson for this of course, but by no means is this the same fighter that fought his way to the top. This is also why I always bring two other top athletes that threw their talent away as well, Doc Gooden and Darryl Strawberry. This is what Roger has to say on Tyson...and he isn't the only one that says this. Historian Herbert Goldman Another man-- a shame what’s happened to him, and I’d say the only man who could have beaten him eventually did beat him, and that was himself—Mike Tyson. Now Mike Tyson’s style—talking about a boxer learning from boxers of the past—and it’s amazing that more has not been made of this. Mike Tyson’s style is Jack Dempsey, completely. The way he comes in quickly with a bob and weave, ducks down low and comes up with a smashing left hook to the larger man’s head and face, that’s Jack Dempsey. When Tyson turned pro he even came into the ring with the sides of his head shaven in emulation of Jack Dempsey. There is no doubt about this. No socks, low shoes, black trunks. This was a young man who studied old fight films like crazy. And he found that the style of Jack Dempsey was more conducive to his own abilities than any other style. And that’s what he developed. KD -- I always felt that Tyson was a small heavyweight and he was often misunderstood and under-rated in terms of the level of genuine skill that he brought into the ring. HG -- That’s right. A lot of people did not understand what they were watching when they saw Mike Tyson. He was not some slugger as such. KD -- He was not a super-power in terms of his physical strength HG -- Oh no. One thing about Mike Tyson that I don’t think a lot of people understand because of, let’s say his psychological-social problems, a lot of people think he’s some kind of stupid brute. He’s not. He happens to be, as far as I can see-- and I don’t know the man but I have had a couple of conversations with him-- an intelligent young man. He’s probably one of the most intelligent fighters, certainly in terms of boxing, that we’ve seen. His emulation of the Jack Dempsey’s style. His knowledge of boxing history is considerable, by the way, and when you listen to him, this is not a stupid man. He’s a very misunderstood boxer, and people also do not understand that his skills eroded after a certain period. People will say Ah he was never anything,. They start to question him all the way back. No. He peaked when he knocked out Michael Spinks in the first round. But beginning about a year after that he really started to go down hill. KD -- That was a period when he had separated from Rooney, his remaining D’Amato trainer, and he no longer had a real trainer who understood his style. HG -- Right. Tyson was a fighter who needed a certain edge. He needed to be on edge. And when he lost that he lost a tremendous amount. He still has too much power and over-all ability for ninety or ninety-five percent of all the fighters out there. There’s no question about that. But at his peak I can’t imagine—and I say this with all respect and deference for Evander Holyfield—but at his peak I can’t imagine Tyson being defeated by Holyfield. At his peak he would have been a terrific fight even for the peak Muhammad Ali. http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/w42x-kd.htm

yeah , Im just talkin about him taking that luxury from one of the other greatest of all times Floyd Patterson. Next thing you know someone will say something stupid about him too. Tyson was a great fighter, if you look at the whole picture of when he came, how fast he rose to the top, and even how it all came crashing down. It s a classic story of a once great fighter who threw it all away with shitty decisions and mental problems. But if Cus DAmato saw something special in Tyson, then safe to say we should to. Most do . Some, for whatever reason like to argue about it. I happen to think thats pretty ignorant. But I m no Bert Sugar!

this is to tyson hater jack asses. How many 20 year old Heavyweights do you know that won the Heavyweight Championship Belt actually, i know of one or two that have won national championships before 20 years of age. not at heavy though.

c'mon versatile2k7, stop hatin' on tyson bro! you have way too much hate for the guy. that can't be healthy.