Who was the first real Boxing champion?

i'm sure there is more to the story. i'll have to check back into that. either way, joe did become a very successfull boxer and the second black heavyweight champion, i beleive 25 years after jack johnson.

It's true, though they don't have any real reasons for hating Canada except that they don't want to be a part of it. Truth is that the goverment bends over backwards to give them handouts so that they'll want to stay in the country. Separatism is a tough issue. I can understand to a certain extent where they're coming from, but it's not like being an independent country is going to solve any of their problems or turn things into a utopia or anything. EDIT: I should say that until 20-30 years ago they did get jerked around a lot by English Canada, which is where the hate comes from. But things have gotten a lot better since then. I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, everyone looks for an easy excuse to put the blame on rather then deal with the real issues. Karma for you for being an intelligent person, something you don't see too much anymore. On to the subject, Jack Dempsey. People often talk about him ducking black fighters etc., however whoever was lined up in front of him, he mowed them down. Marciano is in the same boat. Joe Louis as well.

I once dated a girl from Montreal when I was in college. She lived there 'til she was 19 and had one of those pretty French names...Sophie Marie-Angelique Bordeaux. I loved her name. She absolutely hated Canada, and from what I understood from her (which wasn't much due to her heavy accent, but who's complaining, it was sexy as hell) was that most Quebequois want to secede. It's true, though they don't have any real reasons for hating Canada except that they don't want to be a part of it. Truth is that the goverment bends over backwards to give them handouts so that they'll want to stay in the country. Separatism is a tough issue. I can understand to a certain extent where they're coming from, but it's not like being an independent country is going to solve any of their problems or turn things into a utopia or anything. EDIT: I should say that until 20-30 years ago they did get jerked around a lot by English Canada, which is where the hate comes from. But things have gotten a lot better since then.

I once dated a girl from Montreal when I was in college. She lived there 'til she was 19 and had one of those pretty French names...Sophie Marie-Angelique Bordeaux. I loved her name. She absolutely hated Canada, and from what I understood from her (which wasn't much due to her heavy accent, but who's complaining, it was sexy as hell) was that most Quebequois want to secede.

You guys know why Louis' handlers demanded that he act properly and be seen as a good person? Rockin' :boxing: It was just so people wouldn't think he was another Jack Johnson, isn't it? Or is there more to the story?

he is a quebec singer , he is a superstar in france , he made afew duets with celine dion . stop sending us your cultural garbage please . Quebec is seriously a world away from the rest of the country. When I lived there in my university days I might as well have been on the Moon.

i wouldn't say he had strange issues when it came to race. he was one of those very rare people back in those days that wasn't racist. of course, we all know about his notorious love for the white ladies. ahh, the joe louis thing lol! jack offered to train him and he refused if i remember that correctly. but, perhaps more of an issue, is that jack felt that louis was a tool, or an uncle tom of sorts. You know, I probably misspoke. You're right that Johnson wasn't racist, from what everyone says about him. It was more a fame issue, from what I know...Johnson wanted to be the only one in the spotlight. His affinity for white ladies only added to his fame so he played it up as much as he could. Funny story with Joe, I forgot about that. It's too bad people have that perception with Joe, his handlers were the ones who cultivated his angelic image, and he was just laid-back and went along with it. Plus at the time it was probably the only way to get him a title shot.

That would be a non, mon ami. Hilarious photo, though :eek: . he is a quebec singer , he is a superstar in france , he made afew duets with celine dion . stop sending us your cultural garbage please .

People speak of Dempsey and Sullivan as if they were gods, the founding champions of prize fighting. I call that bullshit though, based on the fact that they refused to fight black fighters. a champion is someone who will beat any contender in the activity, not someone who picks what color their opponent will be...how can someone call themselves a champion and at the same time decline to fight a man just because of his skin tone.. of course, this all changed when jack johnson ko'd ..was his name jim jeffries?? no nm i'm thinking of tommy burns, yeah he ko'd burns and then that's when more blacks got into the sport.. so my question remains, who was the first true undisputed champion? it sure wasnt dempsey, marciano or sullivan..more like choosers than champions, if you ask me. imo the first true champ that didn't duck anyone, didnt give any excuses, and fought all comers, was larry holmes rocky marciano fought everyone, and didnt make excuses and i dont think ali ducked anyone either, and when he lost to fraizer, he conceded that fraizer was the better man that night...who did he make excuses about and who did he duck?

i wouldn't say he had strange issues when it came to race. he was one of those very rare people back in those days that wasn't racist. of course, we all know about his notorious love for the white ladies. ahh, the joe louis thing lol! jack offered to train him and he refused if i remember that correctly. but, perhaps more of an issue, is that jack felt that louis was a tool, or an uncle tom of sorts.

out of curiosity , do you know GAROU bombardier? That would be a non, mon ami. Hilarious photo, though :eek: .

out of curiosity , do you know GAROU bombardier? http://pageperso.aol.fr/clchaboud/images/garou%20encadre%20copie.jpg

jack johnson didn't necessarily not fight black fighters. he fought quite a few, especially in his younger days and when he traveled doing the vaudville tours(mostlty exhibitions however). among some of the better black fighters of the day, sam langford stands out in my mind. No, he didn't avoid them entirely, and he beat all the best black fighters of the era at some point, including Langford. But when he was at the height of his career he did try to fight only whites. Partly because of the gate revenue, but Johnson was notorious for being jealous and resnetlful towards other famous black fighters when he was older, especially Joe Louis. So he did have some strange issues when it came to race.

but you are right about the black/white tension theme drawing the most money.

Dempsey put his name on the dotted line to fight Harry Wills, but the event was not properly financed and as champion Jack never fought unless the money was right. It did not stem from any fear on the Manassa Maulers part, or even a personal contempt for blacks. Dempsey was good friends with many black fighters. An important point we are neglecting is that aside from Harry Wills, there simply weren't many good black heavyweights who would have even been competitive with him. In those days, the impoverished irish tended to dominate boxing as much as anyone. People today like to cling to the image of blacks being naturally better at boxing but at the time they were routintely beaten by irish and other white ethnicities at the time. There were just so many poor irish in America, that the talent pool in boxing consisted mostly of them. In fact you can usually tell which nationalities are being downtrodden by how well they are represented in boxing. Today it's blacks, latinos, asians (in the smaller weight divisions) and a growing number of men from former soviet nations. As for Sullivan, I'm not going to attempt to defend him. He was an out and out racist and proud of it as well. I will say that he was a tough motherfucker who would be a match for anyone in a bareknuckle match where he was allowed to wrestle and hit.

jack johnson didn't necessarily not fight black fighters. he fought quite a few, especially in his younger days and when he traveled doing the vaudville tours(mostlty exhibitions however). among some of the better black fighters of the day, sam langford stands out in my mind.

Nah we're all originally from PA. We crossed over on 80 and went north. As far as them being friendly, here's another stupid story. When we were coming back down into the US, the customs lady said "declare your residency", so without thinking I said "I'm not a doctor". She said it again, and we gave her our ID's. She finally said, "What country are you idiots from?" to which we replied, "We're Americans!" so she said "Go.". Funny moment. I gotta story about American customs but I don't have time to get into it right now. I'll just say that they can be real assholes, pure power trippers.

Nah we're all originally from PA. We crossed over on 80 and went north. As far as them being friendly, here's another stupid story. When we were coming back down into the US, the customs lady said "declare your residency", so without thinking I said "I'm not a doctor". She said it again, and we gave her our ID's. She finally said, "What country are you idiots from?" to which we replied, "We're Americans!" so she said "Go.". Funny moment.

Funny story about Bryan Adams... My friends and I took a roadtrip up to Windsor, Ontario, and if you've ever sat on that huge bridge in Michigan to get into Canada on a Friday at 4pm, you know it sucks. Well we were sitting there and on the radio comes Bryan Adams as it was our turn to go through customs. So my buddy Chris gets the brilliant idea to crank it up as loud as he can and sing the Canadian national anthem (in English of course) while we're having our ID's checked. Guess you had to be there...funny as hell though. haha, I've crossed that border a lot and the Canadian border guys are always really friendly. Are you from Michigan?

To answer the question seriously, Nat Fleischer who founded Ring magazine said that Jack Johnson was the best heavyweight he ever saw, for what that's worth. Funny thing, though, Johnson also refused to fight black fighters, on account that they wouldn't draw a gate. In terms of fighting in a modern style most people would say that Dempsey was the first true great heavyweight champ of the modern era. Though if you're arguing that he doesn't count cause he didn't take on black challengers (valid point of view, of course) then he's out the window. Which leaves probably Joe Louis as the first top-notch champion who took on all comers.