Larry Donald and the myth of the Giant

The thing people don't realize about a Valuev Ruiz fight is that Ruiz's plan is always to faint, lunge in, and grab. This isn't going to fly agaisnt (the limited and slow) Valuev. It's just going to lead to Valuev hitting him on the back of the head, and Ruiz will get stopped similar to Etienne. I don't see Ruiz having the strength to win his fight agsisnt a guy that big. Chris Byrd, yes. Ruiz, no. I guess we'll find out.

I would root for Valuev to defeat Ruiz. I'd even want to see Valuev do so, due to fraud. Ruiz has benefitted from his connections too much. It's time some "politics" come & give him a taste of his own medicine. I agree, if Valuev were to seriously lose in our eyes but still get the nod from the judges I would jump up and down with joy because Ruiz is a fuckwad and so is his manager. He deserve's to get fucked in a decision because he has been on the receiving end a few times of gift decisions.

valuev was more aggressive, but not dominating. he just got thoroughly outboxed by a wide margin. donald was quicker and landed more combinations. i'd also wager that donald landed more punches in total, and definitely landed more jabs.

Actually...the clips I see from that era show a total lack of infighting skills. They clinched incessantly.....& nobody slipped under punches, did they ? I don't see anybody actually working inside....mixing their attacks up & down, with both hands, while slipping shots. When Willard fought an innovative inside fighter like Dempsey, he suffered the most legendary beating of all time.

6'6" is still huge by today's standard. The jab that I've seen on film is better than Vitali's who is of a similar height and successful. He would probably beat Brewster, Ruiz, and Byrd by a wide margin. Might even beat Toney, though only due to the tremendous size and strength difference. Willard was not as limited as you think. Far from the worst heavyweight champion of all time, though everyone tends to downgrade the skills of fighters from that era. Remember, the name of the game was the same then as it is now: hit the other guy without getting hit yourself. The biggest difference was, back then it was ex-fighters with decorated records who became the trainers while today that usually isn't the case. The fighters fought more often, with better trainers, and so were generally more experienced. Boxing was fought at a higher level of skill than it was today. So Willard triumped over what was admittedly a weak era in boxing history, that of the great white hopes, but they were still skilled fighters. They just didn't have much talent, and Willard was enormous with some natural talent as well and so he beat most of them. Todays era is no stronger, and what our heavyweights have in talent they lack in skill. Combination punching and stamina are rare commodities and inside fighting is seen as some kind of mystical skill that only James Toney possesses. Again, I think Willard would do nicely in this era, beating most of the title holders because they are so limited and one dimensional. Toney is the only one of them that can fight well both on the inside or outside, whereas back then it was expected that fighters be schooled at both ranges.

"6'6", iron chin, powerful right hand, and was effective at using his size and establishing a stiff jab." He showed those attributes in a time where the average heavy was so much smaller than today's. He wouldn't have those same advantages today, unless you made everything relative.

Funny because while some people claim that Donald was blatantly robbed, I've heard others say Valuev deserved the close decision and was the more aggressive fighter for the duration of the bout. I'll have to see it for myself. Edit: Also I agree that Willard would be a top contender in this day and would beat most of these clowns. 6'6", iron chin, powerful right hand, and was effective at using his size and establishing a stiff jab.

]] ===================== The worst that I can think of beat the hell out of the best, NeonLeon/Ali l. The 2nd worst, Ruiz fights today, propped up by King. Willard would beat Ruiz easier than he did Jack Johnson and poor Neon Leon wouldn't stand a chance. Valuev is coming along at a good time for him. Timing is everything. Just ask Ken Norton or Jerry Quarry. How can you say Leon's the worst ? He lasted ALMOST 1 round with Gerrie Coetzee & his bionic right hand.....three rounds with Holmes.....& defeated the awesome Kip Kane. Leon's an all-time great, my friend.

Ruiz might loose but he will still retain the title. He has a four leaf clover, a horseshoe, a rabbits foot and he has thrown salt over his back everyday since he won the belts against holyfield.

]] ===================== The worst that I can think of beat the hell out of the best, NeonLeon/Ali l. The 2nd worst, Ruiz fights today, propped up by King. Willard would beat Ruiz easier than he did Jack Johnson and poor Neon Leon wouldn't stand a chance. Valuev is coming along at a good time for him. Timing is everything. Just ask Ken Norton or Jerry Quarry.

BS KO win or not, if ruiz lost, it would be so good for boxing. sure, valuev may be bad, but hes not a gate killer like ruiz is. germany loves valuev... i guess. NOBODY (except tonytucker and the pretender... fucking morons) loves ruiz. there arent too many facts that prove that valuev will be a better champion than ruiz... but i hate ruiz so much, i just want his ass gone! I would root for Valuev to defeat Ruiz. I'd even want to see Valuev do so, due to fraud. Ruiz has benefitted from his connections too much. It's time some "politics" come & give him a taste of his own medicine.

Exposed: I had Valuev winning 3 rounds, and I felt generous. Donald out fought, out foxed, and out punched the lumbering giant. This was one of the worst decisions of the year. Valuev shouldn't be fighting for a title, but if Ruiz does go to Germany, look for the possibility of one of the worst fights ever. Ruiz would look to clinch, and Valuev would hit him on the back of the head. If it's in Germany, Valuev will be awareded a BS TKO win. A "title fight" like this will do no good for the Heavyweight division. BS KO win or not, if ruiz lost, it would be so good for boxing. sure, valuev may be bad, but hes not a gate killer like ruiz is. germany loves valuev... i guess. NOBODY (except tonytucker and the pretender... fucking morons) loves ruiz. there arent too many facts that prove that valuev will be a better champion than ruiz... but i hate ruiz so much, i just want his ass gone!

I don't know why some believe that Valuev will nothing less than "destroy" Ruiz? Valuev has no 'inside' skills.. I'd say he has no skills at all other than his size advantage, but that would be exaggerating.. he has some C level skills add his size advantage and he can compete with the B level competition. Ruiz is a valid champion and Valuev will not stand a chance against him. Ruiz likes to work on the inside and will school Valuev and make him look like an amateur. Valuev cannot defend himself on the inside and will be easily outboxed by Ruiz, Toney, Byrd, Brock. Vitali, Wlad, Brewster are all too fast and too technical and would give Valuev a beating on the outside.. Either way you look at it, Valuev stands no chance with any of the guys listed above, but this is just my assessment... so who knows.. I think Valuev should be fighting guys like: McCline, Maskaev, McBride, Kirk Johnson, Whitaker, maybe even Peter... and he can be successful against most of them... but he is not ready for better competition.

]] ========================= Maybe you actually demonstrated some aptitude it would not seem as though I'm condescending to you. Valuev is a modern day Jess Willard. Willard was equally raw and awkward to look at fighting fast waterbug 195 lb heavies. Did you already forget I gave you that valid Willard comparison? John Scully posted about Valuev on his website when he got back with his fighter, Claybey, from Germany. Scully said he is unbelievably fast and strong and big. I've seen the KO of Ettienne and he showed some good coordination and footwork. Valuev is already a world ranked heavy, something that 99.5% of the heavies who ever boxed never accomplished. I've noticed the people on this board seem to have no sense of perspective. Nobody but a few idiots has ever pumped him up to more than what he is, but just as many few idiots want to tear him down to nothing. What's up with that? He is obviously not a "nothing", as he has had some success. But, I understand there's a taint on his two biggest victories- over Etienne, & now Donald. My opinion is that he is going to be another Michael Grant.....even worse. Grant at least passed some of his early tests rather easily....while Valuev is struggling. Fighters who start as late as Grant & Valuev.....seem to usually come up short when really tried for the first time. Grant had more tools to work with than does Valuev....but, Valuev may be a better-chinned, tougher individual. He better be. The Willard comparison does nothing for me.....as Jess Willard is one of the worst heavyweight champs of all time.

]] ========================= Maybe you actually demonstrated some aptitude it would not seem as though I'm condescending to you. Valuev is a modern day Jess Willard. Willard was equally raw and awkward to look at fighting fast waterbug 195 lb heavies. Did you already forget I gave you that valid Willard comparison? John Scully posted about Valuev on his website when he got back with his fighter, Claybey, from Germany. Scully said he is unbelievably fast and strong and big. I've seen the KO of Ettienne and he showed some good coordination and footwork. Valuev is already a world ranked heavy, something that 99.5% of the heavies who ever boxed never accomplished. I've noticed the people on this board seem to have no sense of perspective. Nobody but a few idiots has ever pumped him up to more than what he is, but just as many few idiots want to tear him down to nothing. What's up with that?

Give us Valuev/Peter.. Oh yeah, I wonder if Michael Wittman saw the fight. He is a Valuev nut hugger..

No reason to be a condescending asshole, pal. You're not talking to a know-nothing with me. Like you said....he's 32. 32, with no amateur experience, & with 9 years of very slow progress. When you look at Valuev in the ring....do you see a guy who has the coordination & athletic aptitude that will enable him to start progressing faster ? I don't....& without an extensive background of being brought up boxing, he doesn't have the savvy to help him out either. This is about as good as he will be. You can teach someone something for twenty years, & if they don't have the aptitude, they won't go very far. He's too old at this point to develop very much. In agreeance with this as well. If he had started younger and had an ametuer career etc. then maybe things would have been different. This is as good as his gets and in a year or two his skills will start to erode like all boxers who hit the 32-35 year old time to quit mark.

Hey I saw the fight and David definitely beat goliath. Valuev got a serious serious gift of a decision it was horrible. Anyone who fights Valuev overseas cannot expect tov win. This isnt the first strange thing that has happened with Valuev. who can forget Cliff Etienne complaining to the ref about getting hit behind the head, only to have the fight called off. Good post Bozo (Positive Karma coming your way)

If you watch Valuev fight, & think he is above mediocre....you are in no position to take a condescending stance with anyone. Your interest in him has more to do with him just as a fighter. Has to....no other reason to know so much about him, care about him, or have any expectations of him.

]] ============================ Earth to Scottie, please beam him on down so he can see what's going on here back on earth. The past two years has seen Valuev take on 4 consecutive top 50 fighters with Donald easily being a top 20 fighter. Valuev is 32 with no amateur experience who started in his career in the midst of Soviet upheavals and poverty. Jess Willard was 33, JJWalcott 37 when they won their titles. Lennox Lewis was 29 when he got his first title which he didn't hold long and was 32 when he regained it and from that period forward is where he compiled the vast majority of title defenses. Lewis had almost a decade of amateur experience at the highest levels as a base to build on. I have no idea if Valuev really beat Donald. I predicted a tough fight for him for all the obvious reasons. People are still arguing over Oscar/Tito or Oscar/Shane, so what does it matter? The only thing that matters is that Valuev has a first rate promoter now and is moving forward and looks to have a title shot in a fight he matches up well in. We'll see what he can do from this point forward, but he's still improving and at the right age and circumstance for a giant boxer out of an impoverished country with no history of pro boxing. Beam him on down now Scottie! No reason to be a condescending asshole, pal. You're not talking to a know-nothing with me. Like you said....he's 32. 32, with no amateur experience, & with 9 years of very slow progress. When you look at Valuev in the ring....do you see a guy who has the coordination & athletic aptitude that will enable him to start progressing faster ? I don't....& without an extensive background of being brought up boxing, he doesn't have the savvy to help him out either. This is about as good as he will be. You can teach someone something for twenty years, & if they don't have the aptitude, they won't go very far. He's too old at this point to develop very much.