Was roy jones a paper champ?

Roy Jones was no paper champ, except at heavyweight. He beat Hopkins at middleweight, Toney at 168, and everybody not named Michaelczewski at 175. True, he fought more bums and cops at 175 than Mike Tyson, but he was the real champ at 175. Rumor has it that he saw a replay of Tyson-Douglas on ESPN Classic and immediately thought "Fuck this, I'm a millionaire" and bounced.

He forfeited the belt to move up to heavyweight to fight Buster Douglas. Many people believe he did this so he wouldn't have to fight his mandatory Michael Nunn. As you know Roy Jones had been talking (and probably dreaming) about the heavy weight title for a long time. He was making the fight with Buster Douglas as a step up to de HW title until his father stood up and prevented Jones from fighting Douglas. Jones and his father (also former trainer) made peace in the process, ending a conflict that had been going on for years with them not speaking to each other. So are the "many people" also thinking this father-and-son fight , that was staged years before, being a part of the complot for Roy super Jones not wanting to face the at this time of history the "very dangerous" Micheal second to (toney, little (ouch!)) Nunn?! ;) :D

...RJJ didn't himself steal the belt.... Now we are getting somewhere! ;)

Bpapa...you are clearly out of your f'n mind with your statements and lack of logic. It's almost humorous.....almost.

Ok, you asked for my opnion, and I will answer, but don´t let us turn this into a groupie-/ hater-thing, cause I have no "emotional" attitude towards both of them. As for the KO-percentage, we have to keep in mind, that Jones started at MW. After he became LHW-champ, he fought two mediocre opponents (Frazier, Kelly), the other opponents have been all decent challengers. DM spent his whole career at LHW and fought (like nearly every boxer...) 20 bums before he took on better opponents. Being a champion, he also fought 8-10 bums :rolleyes: . Yes, he is a hard hitter, but some of his challengers would´ve lost against Andre Ward in his pro debut ;) . So DM had a bum ratio of about 10% higher than RJJ at LHW and it would probably be advantage RJJ if you counted his defenses at MW and SMW. I'd say that's pretty good considering DM only fought in Europe.

He never lost the belt in a fight (before Tarver). And HE did not steal it. But I said that a couple of times before But go ahead try to talk something black into someting very very light grey (AKA white), but if I do not responding anymore is not because I agree with you. :p (And maybe I will, somethimes I like the "yes-no game" with the my kids also) ;) He forfeited the belt to move up to heavyweight to fight Buster Douglas. Many people believe he did this so he wouldn't have to fight his mandatory Michael Nunn. He had Rocchigiani do his dirty work for him, and then he didn't fight Rocchigiani like he should have. RJJ didn't himself steal the belt, but he did accept a stolen belt that WBC stole from Rocchigiani and gave to him. Its not that difficult.

He never lost the belt in a fight (before Tarver). And HE did not steal it. But I said that a couple of times before But go ahead try to talk something black into someting very very light grey (AKA white), but if I do not responding anymore is not because I agree with you. :p (And maybe I will, somethimes I like the "yes-no game" with the my kids also) ;) Roy didn't steal the belt, but in a manner of speaking the belt did fall off the truck and he picked it up. It was the WBC that made the mistake and costed them dearly. I think the whole situation was messed up because it was decided in court that Rocky was the WBC champion before being beaten by DM, but the title still remained with Roy Jones Jr.

Regardless he later stole the belt from Rocchigiani. He never lost the belt in a fight (before Tarver). And HE did not steal it. But I said that a couple of times before But go ahead try to talk something black into someting very very light grey (AKA white), but if I do not responding anymore is not because I agree with you. :p (And maybe I will, somethimes I like the "yes-no game" with the my kids also) ;)

RJJ had a KO % of 60% at LHW and DM had 80% and he has never been KD. I've seen most of his fights, and all of the ones you listed, and I'd have to disagree with you completely except for Hall v. DM I being prematurely stopped. Ok, you asked for my opnion, and I will answer, but don´t let us turn this into a groupie-/ hater-thing, cause I have no "emotional" attitude towards both of them. As for the KO-percentage, we have to keep in mind, that Jones started at MW. After he became LHW-champ, he fought two mediocre opponents (Frazier, Kelly), the other opponents have been all decent challengers. DM spent his whole career at LHW and fought (like nearly every boxer...) 20 bums before he took on better opponents. Being a champion, he also fought 8-10 bums :rolleyes: . Yes, he is a hard hitter, but some of his challengers would´ve lost against Andre Ward in his pro debut ;) . How did he lose to Rocchigiani? Rocchigiani was DQ'd after it was ruled a technical draw for Rocchigiani hitting DM on a break in their first fight, and DM simply dominated him in their rematch. In the first fight Rocchigiani dominated DM who was just about getting KO´ed as he was hit after the break. Of course this was accidental, but DM couldn´t or didn´t want to continue (I favour the second thought...). Anyway, this happened in the 7th round, they went to the scorecards, realized that DM would´ve lost then and declared a DRAW :eek: . Why a draw??? Later Rocchigiani was DQ´ed for having ephedrin in his A-test. He protested and wanted the B-test to be analized, but it was lost... . Maybe that´s the reason why many fighters didn´t want to go to Germany. I don´t accuse DM but the men behind him. The reamtch took place in 2000 and Rocchigiani hadn´t fought for 2,5 years. That´s it for now. DM is ok, but he never tried to find out what´s his potential, and this really sucks.

To my mind, Jones just fought different at LHW than he did at SMW, most likely because he was the smaller guy in many cases. That doesn´t mean that he had no power. He still was one the hardest punchers of the devision and he could even impress Ruiz with his punches. DM had a good chin, but I think he would´ve been knocked out or stopped on cuts. I guess you´re European, too, because most fans in the US haven´t seen many of his fights. I have seen them all, and he clearly lost against Girard, Rocchigiani (no BS discussions about drugs, please... :rolleyes: ), and in the second fight against Hall he looked much worse than Hall looked in the first, but Hall was taken out of the fight while DM wasn´t. Premature stoppages have been in his fights with Griffin, Hall I & II, Thadzi, Ka-Dy King. That´s my opinion as a boxing fan. If you see it different, why not ;) . RJJ had a KO % of 60% at LHW and DM had 80% and he has never been KD. I've seen most of his fights, and all of the ones you listed, and I'd have to disagree with you completely except for Hall v. DM I being prematurely stopped. How did he lose to Rocchigiani? Rocchigiani was DQ'd after it was ruled a technical draw for Roccigiani hitting DM on a break in their first fight, and DM simply dominated him in their rematch. Did you miss the memo on no standing 8 counts? If a guy is out on his feet, hardly defending himself, and not fighting back, its the refs job to stop the fight. Here is what Griffin's brother said about the DM fight, "He felt like he was treated unjustly in the Olympic Games and in the second Jones fight, where he was rushed into the ring before he could warm up. But there is no doubt that he lost tonight."

RJJ had very little power at all LHW. To my mind, Jones just fought different at LHW than he did at SMW, most likely because he was the smaller guy in many cases. That doesn´t mean that he had no power. He still was one the hardest punchers of the devision and he could even impress Ruiz with his punches. DM had a good chin, but I think he would´ve been knocked out or stopped on cuts. What were some premature stoppages and times when refs and judges saved him? I guess you´re European, too, because most fans in the US haven´t seen many of his fights. I have seen them all, and he clearly lost against Girard, Rocchigiani (no BS discussions about drugs, please... :rolleyes: ), and in the second fight against Hall he looked much worse than Hall looked in the first, but Hall was taken out of the fight while DM wasn´t. Premature stoppages have been in his fights with Griffin, Hall I & II, Thadzi, Ka-Dy King. That´s my opinion as a boxing fan. If you see it different, why not ;) .

DM´s power is much overrated! He couldn´t send Gonzales, Hall, Hill to the canvas which Roy could, and many of his "KO" victories habe been premature stoppings with his opponents still on their feet. He was saved several times by the Refs or the judges and was hit in nearly every fight as much that it would´ve killed him if he had fought Jones. Another point is: Tarver and Johnson beat Roy, who said that DM could beat him now? DM is shot (no matter if he can beat Grandpa Tiozzo :rolleyes: ), and I would still favor Jones to TKO him in a fight. RJJ had very little power at all LHW. There is no way he would TKO DM. What does him not being able to KD Gonzales (when he was shot), Hill, or Hall? He KO'd Harmon who RJJ couldn't KO. What were some premature stoppages and times when refs and judges saved him?

how the hell can u whip out 3 divisons (middle super middle and lt heavy) and win belts in 4 divisons and be a paper champ...roy jones is by far the greatest middleweight and supermiddle of all time...top 5 at light heavyweight

mooks i think your arguing with the wrong guy. I was referring to someone else's description of Jones when usuing the term "exposed"...hence the quote marks. Jones is a horses' ass, but I always give him his credit. Ahh sorry bud, I was quick on the trigger :o . Just that so many haters out there that can't give credit where it's due.

He fought and won the belt against Mike McCallum :p Regardless he later stole the belt from Rocchigiani.

DM has something that everyone who fought RJJ at LHW didn't have, power. After beating Hill he was 14-0 with 14 KOs. DM´s power is much overrated! He couldn´t send Gonzales, Hall, Hill to the canvas which Roy could, and many of his "KO" victories habe been premature stoppings with his opponents still on their feet. He was saved several times by the Refs or the judges and was hit in nearly every fight as much that it would´ve killed him if he had fought Jones. Another point is: Tarver and Johnson beat Roy, who said that DM could beat him now? DM is shot (no matter if he can beat Grandpa Tiozzo :rolleyes: ), and I would still favor Jones to TKO him in a fight.

Sorry but accepting stolen belts without fighting for them is something that a paper champ does. He fought and won the belt against Mike McCallum :p

That is a different poster. I am the Original Widow, the WIDOWTAKER :D

He beat Reggie Johnson, Telesco, Gonzalez and lastly John Ruiz. Jones WAS the best light heavy, however he no longer is obviously. I prefer WiDDoW MaKeR.

The Rocchigiani thing, was a thing between the WBC and Rocchigiani. In regard to the paper champ claim: It was Jones belt to begin with! (and no way you can count the wbc belt into DM collection, since Rocchigiani did not have the belt 10 months prior to the fight (the belt that Jones had before Rocchigiani, the one Jones did not loose in a fight, and was vacanted to come into the hands of Rocchigiani)) As I wrote before: Roy Jones WON the major titles (WBC, IBF, WBA). That some people (or their management) are too clumsie to hold on the belts they won is NOT Jones fault! Jones won all of the belts by beating the holder of the belt: - WBC: Mike McCallum - WBA: Lou Del Valle - IBF: Reggie Johnson (Nunn and Rocchigiani fought for jones' WBC belt, that was temperarely away from jones, and in this process Rocchigiani was seriously wronged by the WBC). So jones is not a paper champ! Sorry but accepting stolen belts without fighting for them is something that a paper champ does.