Vitali's best fights are losses - this is the recognized champ?

In the big K - Lewis fight, Vitali looked really good against Lennox, he was really taking it to him, and i think in that fight he won the people's respect - i'm not a big VK fan, but he's got my respect for beating Lewis in the first half of that fight. We all know Lennox is a slow starter, it always takes him a few rounds to get warmed up, and, at the time Vitali was cut it really looked like Lennox was tired of eating punches and was starting to wake up, so we'll never know what would have happened if there had been no cut. any way you slice it, Lennox was in for a tough night, even if he turned things around and started dominating.

I don't disagree that he doesn't deserve to be a champion. He won the vacant WBC title bout to win the belt. What I wonder is, why do 80 some percent perceive him to be the true heavyweight champion, as the HBO poll showed? I think he's got The Ring belt, too. Byrd's resume is better and includes a win over Vitali. Ruiz lost to a light heavy, but his overall competition is better than V. Klitschko's as well. Paper losses or wins do not mean ... much to the public. The public decides who won or lost a fight. The public often disagrees with judges, and often rightfully so. Many people have expressed the view that Byrd essentially (a) lost to Oquendo, a B level fighter, (b) lost to Golota, a shot and rusty fighter, (c) lost to Wlad Klichko, who many people here call a shot bum (unfortunately), and (d) lost to Vitali. On paper, he won (a), (b), (d), but 80% of people polled by HBO apparently think otherwise. The same can be said for the wrestling wins of Ruiz. Not many people appreciate those. Plus Ruiz was beaten by some old guy later knocked out by Glenn Jonson. Lastly, Vitali's competition was as good as it gets: Lewis, Byrd, Sanders, Donald, Johnson, not too bad, right? ... And what ultimately matters is what the public thinks about Vitali's performance in those fights, not what the paper says.

I think that undisputed stauts is really confered to a fighter by the public and the media. Regardless of who holds the Ring Belt or any alphabet soup belt for that matter. The reality is that Vitali has had all of his fights including is title winning preformance on non PPV and he is a seemingly likable guy, who is big and gave Lewis a hard time. Thats why he is getting as much attention as he is which is still not that much.

That doesn't take into effect how those fights were won, or how good the fighter is doing now. Last 10 Win Lists are Pointless: DaVarryl Williamson Danell Nicholson Fabio Eduardo Moli Jameel McCline Ray Mercer Francois Botha Charles Shufford Derrick Jefferson Chris Byrd Monte Barrett

ok now post the "impressive" records or record of the guy you belive is the tru champ go ahead include lewis his opponents werent all that impressive and are you dumb u dont factor in losses after they fought a guy that only helps to make him look good most fighters arent the same after losin much less being ko'd which is more often the case with Vit The post was about Vitali's weak opponent record, not any other heavyweight champs' but I will go ahead and list the 2 guys I would say are more credible champions than Vitali's last 10 opponents along with his and you can see who has the stronger pedigree. I understand that Byrd's fights with his last 2 were controversial decisions, but the fact remains that he still holds the belt with wins on paper so they count. I would say John Ruiz is the true heavyweight champ in my eyes, but that's only because the rest of the division is just so damn bad. I would rank Byrd ahead of Klitschko too. This doesn't mean I think those 2 guys would beat Vitali (necessarily - though I think Ruiz would), it just means that they have better cause to call themselves the "Recognized" champion. CHRIS BYRD LAST 10 WINS AND DRAW Andrew Golota (draw; retains belt) Fres Oquendo Evander Holyfield Jeff Pegues David Tua Maurice Harris David Vedder Vitali Klitschko David Na'il Val Smith JOHN RUIZ LAST 10 WINS AND DRAW Fres Oquendo Hasim Rahman Kirk Johnson Evander Holyfield (draw; retains belt) Evander Holyfield Thomas Williams Fernely Feliz Mario Cawley Jerry Ballard Tony Tucker VITALI KLITSCHKO LAST 10 WINS Corrie Sanders Kirk Johnson Larry Donald Vaughn Bean Ross Purrity Orlin Norris Timo Hoffmann Obed Sullivan Ed Mahone Herbie Hide Klitschko's opponents are obviously a distant third.

ok now post the "impressive" records or record of the guy you belive is the tru champ go ahead include lewis his opponents werent all that impressive and are you dumb u dont factor in losses after they fought a guy that only helps to make him look good most fighters arent the same after losin much less being ko'd which is more often the case with Vit Why not factor in the losses after they fight a guy? So you're saying that if Rydell Booker loses when he fights another guy with a name we can credit James Toney with being the guy who derailed his career? Most people who get fights with contenders have sparkling records through 20 or so fights. That's what gets them there. Losing once they fight someone decent exposes them for being overrated, as was apparently the case with Timo Hoffmann and Ed Mahone.

OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there. The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages. But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer. Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ": Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad. Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat. Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either. Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?) Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad... Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26 Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him. Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak. Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight. It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old. C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare. Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive. At last someone speaks the truth. Vitali is a big guy who beat a few no named little guys, rofl, I guess he is just the lamers big white hope, rather the white hype, he will be exposed when he fights a decent fighter........

Hey neils I'll just stick to the basic and logical reason on this one . . . for me irregardless of how many loses or K.O.s a fighter has on his records . . . . if he wins a belt then that makes him a champion. And should be regarded as one. I don't disagree that he doesn't deserve to be a champion. He won the vacant WBC title bout to win the belt. What I wonder is, why do 80 some percent perceive him to be the true heavyweight champion, as the HBO poll showed? I think he's got The Ring belt, too. Byrd's resume is better and includes a win over Vitali. Ruiz lost to a light heavy, but his overall competition is better than V. Klitschko's as well.

I had Big K winning the fight, too, but I also saw a very good chance for him to lose it. The last thing in the fight, right before the stoppage in the corner was Lewis hitting Big K so hard he stumbled along the ring ropes all the way across the ring. That wasn't a good sign for Big K.

Can't argue with that, lol

Hey neils I'll just stick to the basic and logical reason on this one . . . for me irregardless of how many loses or K.O.s a fighter has on his records . . . . if he wins a belt then that makes him a champion. And should be regarded as one. Agreed! Best post/reply ever submitted on this thread/topic. Simple and understandable. One more thing... Vitali Klitschko OWNS!!!!

He's fighting everyone he can fight, what the fuck do you want? I'll bet you could SHOW him how to do it better than you could TELL him how, why don't you?

Well that wasn't surprising.

OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there. The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages. But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer. Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ": Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad. Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat. Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either. Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?) Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad... Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26 Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him. Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak. Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight. It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old. C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare. Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive. Well, when you put it THAT way...looks pretty grim.. :(

Just a question if not Vitali who else can claim they are the best heavy weight today....

I think Vitali is on top of heap coz, really nobody out there is showing they are better than Vit....

OK, so why are we all to believe that Vitali Klitschko is the TRUE heavyweight champion of the world? Why are there people on this board that would pick Vitali against any other heavyweight out there. The guy was up on points when he LOST to former WBC champion Lennox Lewis (who was out-of-shape and on the brink of retirement) and current IBF champion Chris Byrd (who took the fight on a week's notice). He had more points at the time of the stoppages. But which one of these wins is supposed to impress me? It's easy to see why Wlad was considered better; he has wins over Monte Barrett, Jameel McCline, Chris Byrd, and Ray Mercer. Here are the last 10 victims of the guy HBO and the Ring magazine want you to believe is the "real champ": Corrie Sanders - Since November of 2001, this guy has fought just one guy not named Klitschko. The semi-retired overweight golf pro only still had a name because he beat Wladimir, which was a lot more impressive before Brewster did it too. Corrie was KO'd by Hasim Rahman in 2000 and was also KO'd by Nate Tubbs. He has no wins of note other than Wlad. Kirk Johnson - a 260 lb ball of fat. Larry Donald - on life support by Don King. Ranked 49 by Boxing Rec. Never beat anyone either. Vaughn Bean - I only know this guy's name because Holyfield whipped him too. He never beat anyone of note. (see a pattern here?) Ross Purritty - The dude has 17 losses. Everytime he fights anyone good he loses (he did fight Tommy Morrison to a draw!) He lost to Michael Grant, Hasim Rahman, the Danish Pastry Brian Nielsen, Sanders and Donald, Chris Byrd... This guy's picture is next to "tomato can" in the boxing dictionary. At least he beat Wlad... Orlin Norris - famous for tripping over Tyson's foot and breaking his ankle. Also lost to Henry Akinwande, Andrew Golota, that pesky Danish Pastry, Tony Tucker, and Bert Cooper Timo Hoffmann - this guy was undefeated when he fought Vitali. Since then he's lost to Michael Sprott and Akinwande. Boxing Rec ranks him 26 Obed Sullivan - Journeyman who made it 11 rounds with Vitali. David Tua knocked him out in 51 seconds. Fres Oquendo also TKO'd him. Ed Mahone - looked like a good prospect coming into the fight. He was undefeated; since then he won a fight over Mario Cawley and has been exposed with three losses to guys with a combined record of 62-15-2, including a KO loss to 8-lossed Terrence Lewis. Appears to be retired after the losing streak. Herbie Hide - Vitali KO'd him. Wow; Riddick Bowe dropped this bum 7 times in their fight. It looks like Vitali is fighting Danny Williams, who was unknown prior to lasting 5 rounds and taking advantage of an injured Tyson and has a loss to Julius Francis on his resume. If Vitali conquers that "hurdle", then who? Maybe DaVarryl Williamson? This cleaning up little brother's unfinished business is getting old. C'mon, Vit. The Heavyweight Division is in shambles. Fight somebody already. A champion, a former champion, someone who has 20+ wins in THE UNITED STATES, someone who has been in shape since after the Y2K scare. Then maybe the elder Klitschko will have earned the respect that too many people on this site give the guy. Saying he runs through Rahman, Ruiz, Toney, Tua and Tyson after going through this not-so-distinguished list of opponents seems a bit naive. ok now post the "impressive" records or record of the guy you belive is the tru champ go ahead include lewis his opponents werent all that impressive and are you dumb u dont factor in losses after they fought a guy that only helps to make him look good most fighters arent the same after losin much less being ko'd which is more often the case with Vit

Unlike the other belt holders, Vitali hardly loses a round, and his only close fight was against Lewis, and we all remember how lopsided the fight was before Lewis was fighting a one eyed Vitali. Also remember it takes more than 7 lbs for someone who is 6'5'' to become all of the sudden fat and out of shape. I think it had more to do with age and Vitali's style and activity (he threw 40 jabs and 70 punches per round). Corrie Sanders: I take it you haven't seen the Rahman fight? Sanders gave Rahman a run for his money. He KD and nearly knocked him over the ropes, as well as dominating the early rounds before he flamed out as usual. Kirk Johnson: Is Ruiz's only good win and its a DQ. Larry Donald: VK was the first one to stop him. Bowe couldn't do it and Kirk Johnson only beat him 112-116, 113-115, 110-118. Vaughn Bean: VK also the first one to stop him. Have you seen the Bean v. Holyfield fight? It was surprising close at times. Holyfield beat him 110-117, 110-117, 111-116. He lost to Moorer 113-116, 113-115, 114-114. His only other loss was in his last fight to Tony Thompson. I know nothing about this guy, but Boxrec has him ranked 21. Timo Hoffman: Lost to Sprott but beat him in his next fight and his loss to Akinwande was a SD. Herbie Hide: Bowe did KD Hide 7 times, but it took him nearly 6 rounds to finish him, and in doing so he lost at least 2 rounds to him on every scorecard. That's 3 rounds for Bowe, 2 rounds for Hide. Take away the KD's and you have yourself a close fight. Danny Williams: Don't forget his loss to Sam. very, very nice.

Oh look, another Vitali hater...how original. A sizeable thread with many examples is followed with the even more unoriginal dismissal as a "hater" post. Why do you even take the time to respond if all you can come up with is the equivalent to "nuh-uh". Try varying your posts from now on. Mix your "hater" stuff in with some other phrases that the mainstream has taken and ruined. Next time you don't agree with me, perhaps "talk to the hand" or "don't go there" or "you ain't all that girlfriend". It's easier on the eyes to have more than one incompetent argument. Neuraxis had a good rebuttal post. You did not.

Unlike the other belt holders, Vitali hardly loses a round, and his only close fight was against Lewis, and we all remember how lopsided the fight was before Lewis was fighting a one eyed Vitali. Also remember it takes more than 7 lbs for someone who is 6'5'' to become all of the sudden fat and out of shape. I think it had more to do with age and Vitali's style and activity (he threw 40 jabs and 70 punches per round). Corrie Sanders: I take it you haven't seen the Rahman fight? Sanders gave Rahman a run for his money. He KD and nearly knocked him over the ropes, as well as dominating the early rounds before he flamed out as usual. Kirk Johnson: Is Ruiz's only good win and its a DQ. Larry Donald: VK was the first one to stop him. Bowe couldn't do it and Kirk Johnson only beat him 112-116, 113-115, 110-118. Vaughn Bean: VK also the first one to stop him. Have you seen the Bean v. Holyfield fight? It was surprising close at times. Holyfield beat him 110-117, 110-117, 111-116. He lost to Moorer 113-116, 113-115, 114-114. His only other loss was in his last fight to Tony Thompson. I know nothing about this guy, but Boxrec has him ranked 21. Timo Hoffman: Lost to Sprott but beat him in his next fight and his loss to Akinwande was a SD. Herbie Hide: Bowe did KD Hide 7 times, but it took him nearly 6 rounds to finish him, and in doing so he lost at least 2 rounds to him on every scorecard. That's 3 rounds for Bowe, 2 rounds for Hide. Take away the KD's and you have yourself a close fight. Danny Williams: Don't forget his loss to Sam.