Respecting Hopkins as a champion and a fighter

I still have this in my head after the DLH - BHOP fight. I like Nard. I'm a fan. I like him for his tactical know-how and mind games. I picked him to win right from the start of the hype of his fight with DLH. After the bout, now I'm telling myself... I respect him as a fighter but how about as a complete champion? In Oscar, Julio Cesar Chavez, Duran, Leonard, and other great champions, we saw guys who cleansed their division and went up to other weight classes to look for more opponents. They went out of their way to lock horns with other fighters. Along the way, as they went up and beyond their natural weight, they gained a sort of handicap for the effectiveness of their skill. Geez, Duran started at 119 pounds and we remember him finally stopping in the middles where there were guys with a lot of natural power to annihilate him. These fighters brushed regularly with an ever increasing possibility of a loss due to the weight they put on just to vie for other belts or to elevate their reputation. Oscar went through this that's why his honor is not tarnished despite his loss by KO. Hopkins on the other hand, stayed in his division and waited for challengers. He camped there and built a legacy with a solid foundation. But why did he not put an added level of challenge to the game he plays by going up in weight? Was he ever at risk because of this? I really want to give him props right now but I'm feeling sooo incomplete. Boxing is the only solo player sport where there are a lot of conditions for you to fulfill in order to be recognized as a complete champion for all time. A champ needs prove his armor and sword not just in one place alone but also in other levels as well. Hopkins is a great fighter. I also want to say that he's a great champion. But when I remember him a few years after he retires, will I just want to remember him solely as a camping middle weight? Where does being a champion start and how do you cement a legacy properly? And when does a reputation collapse and solidify. I think we need to define it again. Thanks for reading this post. FistFest here.

Comments (18)

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21y ago

Moon

Perfect man. I agree, Man.

21y ago

Moon

This is what I think of Nard; Good record, beat DLH and Tito, but lackluster in the ring. :cool: Perfect man.

21y ago

S0UTHPAW

I give Hopkins all the respect in the world for what he has done to this point. He has stacked the odds in his favor through out his career and I give him more credit for that. I can not think of anything bad to say about him, so I guess that about covers it.

21y ago

mic573

Hopkins is and should be considered one of the great middleweights of all time. He really wants to make his goal of 20 defenses and I'm not going to knock him for doing it. He has been so dominate at 160 that he has force other fighters out of the division. Look at Keith Holmes who has moved back down to 154 because he knows he is not getting past Hopkins. Bernard has even scared 154 pound fighters, outside of Trinidad and Delahoya, from moving up. I think after his 20th defense he will finally satisfy everyone on every messageboard by moving up and facing Tarver or Jones. He even said he wouldn't ask for a catch weight if he fought Tarver. Jones I think put his foot in his mouth by saying he would come down to 168 to fight Bernard. Knowing how Hopkins is he may try to make Jones stick to that statement.

21y ago

FistFest

Hopkins has my Full respect as a fighter, alittle dirty in the ring but is one of the best p4p fighters in the last 10years Yeah. I believe he's one of the few fighters who tactically uses dirty fighting to get in his opponents head. I believe it's his mental weapon. Once his enemy softens up, he'll go back to his basic textbook perfect skills for the kill.

21y ago

WillieW

;) Good point Willie. Exactly. But that in itself is an oppurtunity, right? The lack of good opposition at 168 could've worked for Hopkins advantage right? If he jumped in the 168 division capitalizing on this advantage, the going-up-in-weight issue wouldnt have started in the first place. He'd have an easy time grabbing belts there too. Right, he could have pretty much cleaned out the division in one or two fights, but then he would be simply stuck again in a division that was worse than the one he left. Then he would have to deal with sliding back down to 160lbs to regain that division. I think he was wise to stay were he was, too many boxers have ruined their careers weight jumping....ie Mosely. Now B-Hop is marketable again so he should be able to get a couple of big fights before he retires. I say good for him.

21y ago

FistFest

This could be veiwed a different angle. He never moved, but who was there to fight at 168lbs? What would he have accomplished? 168lbs has been dead for a long time, what would it have proved? Say he did beat Calzac for instance. Would this really suprize most? I would hope not. I don't think B-Hop has a good frame for 175lbs, so I understand his reasons for not going that far up. The question could also be posed....why haven't more 154lbers moved up to fight Hop? It was supposed to be one of the premere divisions with Wright, Mosely, ODH, Vargus ect ect. His legacy is intact, he is one of the great middleweights. We will never know how great due to the lack of competition at 160lbs and 168lbs, but he still deserves much credit. ;) Good point Willie. Exactly. But that in itself is an oppurtunity, right? The lack of good opposition at 168 could've worked for Hopkins advantage right? If he jumped in the 168 division capitalizing on this advantage, the going-up-in-weight issue wouldnt have started in the first place. He'd have an easy time grabbing belts there too.

21y ago

WillieW

21y ago

FistFest

Thank you PSO. Mighty nice of ya.

21y ago

FistFest

FistFest .... but, you did say "A champ needs prove his armor and sword not just in one place alone but also in other levels as well". If you think that Hopkins needs to move-up to "prove" something, then you are definitely belittling his accomplishments. Very subtly, but definitely. I have disagreed with you. Hopkins doesn't have to "prove" anything to anybody. He's a Champion, without moving-up. Nope. I aint belittling anybody and I sure think you're putting words in my mouth. Anyway, I respect your opinion but let me just say that I want to see BHop silence all his critics. By the way, I intended the word "prove" to have a broad meaning in that statement. Why am I not the only one saying that he needs to go up in weight and challenge someone from up there? Do I mean anything bad or disrespectful to Hopkins when I feel that way? HECK NO! It's the only thing missing. He's close to it, we know he can do it, and it's a loss if he doesnt even attempt it when it's an arms length away. I like BHop and if he settles the going-up-in-weight issue, wouldnt you be completely happy to see a big number of his fans and critics admit that they were proven wrong and they finally lay the issue to rest? :rolleyes:

21y ago

Moon

First off... I'm a Hopkins fan. Never did I say in this forum that I ignore Hopkins number of defences, never did I mean that Oscar unified belts in a division, he fought the top contenders in those divisions never did I belittle BHop's accomplishments. I merely wanted to say that he could've been MORE respectable if he went out of his way to seek fighters from weight classes above him. His skill could've been tested at another level. ;) FistFest .... but, you did say "A champ needs prove his armor and sword not just in one place alone but also in other levels as well". If you think that Hopkins needs to move-up to "prove" something, then you are definitely belittling his accomplishments. Very subtly, but definitely. I have disagreed with you. Hopkins doesn't have to "prove" anything to anybody. He's a Champion, without moving-up.

21y ago

FistFest

FISTFEST - Oscar "cleaned up his division"? Which division was that. He didn't unify at any weight. Just think of it this way ..... If you're willing to give Oscar his props, remember also the man that dominated him on Saturday. FistFest .... stop being an Oscar apologist and look at Bernard for who he is. In 20 years, I'll still remember who popped Oscar's ribs. And still remember that Oscar showed the world that he didn't know his own limitations, even after being thumped by a 2nd rate Middle called Sturm. On the other hand, in 20 years, there'll be Hopkins, Undisputed Champ. By the way. Do you figure there's no beauty in getting a record number of defences at Middle, or any weight. You gotta' stay there a while to do that. First off... I'm a Hopkins fan. Never did I say in this forum that I ignore Hopkins number of defences, never did I mean that Oscar unified belts in a division, he fought the top contenders in those divisions never did I belittle BHop's accomplishments. I merely wanted to say that he could've been MORE respectable if he went out of his way to seek fighters from weight classes above him. His skill could've been tested at another level. ;)

21y ago

Sir_Jose

This is the dumbest godamn argument people make when talking about Hopkins. So the fuck what he didn't move up NIETHER DID HAGLER! The guy has dominated his division for 10 freaking years and has made 19 defenses and unified all 3 major belts and WBO along the way. I keep hearing people who dont know about the sport bitch that he didn't move. Someone want to tell me who was up at 168 for him to fight? If you cant respect someone who has lasted this long in such a rough and unforgiving sport then you just need to quit watching boxing right now. The two top guys at 168 during Hopkins run were Joe Calzaghe and Sven Ottke BOTH were flat out pussies who would never dare leave the comforts of Europe to take on a real fighter. Would beating either of these two guys now make him great?...NO. Duran didn't move up cause he wanted better challenges he moved up because he was a fat ass who hated to train when he got older.

21y ago

FistFest

I don't think anyone can deny B-Hop of his legacy. Where as you would define a complete champion as someone who not only conquers his division but also posessing the ability to take the fight to next level, or the next weight class for that matter, a better definition of a complete champion can be summed up in one word: consistancy. In boxing, someone faster, stronger or more skillfull always comes along and have your number. When you are the champ, you are the target, the hunted if you will. In 19 straight defences, B-Hop is yet to be dethroned. Among them were more than worthy opponents. B-Hop put a stop to Tito's rampage and myth. Nard's skill and his will is what defeated Trinidad more than his size and his strength. Against DLH, he took and siezed the fight, refusing that his faith be decided by no one other than himself. You don't need to step in other realms to be a great champ. You just had to stay champ, disposing of any warrior that is put in front of you or anyone who challenges your supremacy. A few years from now, should he retire with his 20 defences, I would not remember Bernard Hopkins as a camping middleweight. I would remember him as the UNDISPUTED middleweight champion of the world. (unless he looses his 20th lol) Mooks! Nice to bump into ya! I'm back. Anyway, point taken and I feel the same way you do about the word consistency in a champion. Now, I was trying to point out the other things a champion should do to get the utmost respect in different angles of the legacy he made. ;)

21y ago

Moon

FISTFEST - Oscar "cleaned up his division"? Which division was that. He didn't unify at any weight. If you chose to remember Hopkins as a guy who "camped", well that's your business. Just think of it this way ..... If you're willing to give Oscar his props, remember also the man that dominated him on Saturday. FistFest .... stop being an Oscar apologist and look at Bernard for who he is. In 20 years, I'll still remember who popped Oscar's ribs. And still remember that Oscar showed the world that he didn't know his own limitations, even after being thumped by a 2nd rate Middle called Sturm. On the other hand, in 20 years, there'll be Hopkins, Undisputed Champ. By the way. Do you figure there's no beauty in getting a record number of defences at Middle, or any weight. You gotta' stay there a while to do that.

21y ago

SonnyG8R

Hopkins should be remembered as a great middleweight champ but that is all. He is not in the same class as Duran, Leonard etc. He will never be mentioned as an alltime p4p great.

21y ago

m00ks

21y ago