In this week’s mailbag, Stephen “Breadman” Edwards answers the almost inevitable questions about a potential match-up between Oleksandr Usyk and Moses Itauma, the actual match-up between Jake Paul and Gervonta "Tank" Davis, and, as ever, much more
Thank you for answering my letter last week. Two questions. One, do big-time gamblers, to your knowledge, wait to see who the judges and referee are going to be before making their bets? I’ve read many boxing people saying Bud-Canelo goes the distance. Wouldn’t it be smart to wait and see who is judging the fight, knowing that some judges favor boxing over slugging, and some judges are outright biased in other areas? Two, As a trainer, do you tailor your training and strategy based on who’s judging the fight?
Curt, Omaha
Bread’s response: Yes, oftentimes hard gamblers wait until the judges’ list comes out. But sometimes they pull the trigger early, when they see odds that they like. As a trainer there are judges that I believe are fair, and there are judges that I believe are not fair. I don’t publicly criticize judges because you never know who you will be assigned. But I definitely ask these questions on fight week.
It’s impossible to gear a training camp based on who the judges will be, because the judges aren’t selected until the week of the fight. By that time, camp is basically over. So your game plan is your game plan. But you can ask for a judge to be removed if you have proof that the judge made an egregious error in the past…
Greetings Mr Edwards,
Great performance by Moses Itauma against Dillian White. This guy hits really hard, and he’s shaping up to be one of the greatest punchers in history. I think Itauma could be the pound-for-pound number one in the not-too-distant future. I’d like to know your opinion and prediction on two points. One, among boxers under 30 years old, which fighters do you think have a high probability of being the pound-for-pound number one in the future? My choice, and in order of preference, would be Itauma, “Bam” Rodriguez, “Boots” Ennis, Shakur, Gervonta, Osgley Iglesias, Andy Cruz, and Mbilli. Who are yours? Two, right now, how do you think Itauma would fare against Oleksandr Usyk? How would you break down a fight between them today?
Bread’s response: I think Moses Itauma looked awesome versus Dillian Whyte. But I don’t want to get carried away. Whyte is 37 years old. He’s been knocked out brutally three times, and he’s had a positive PED test. My point of bringing that up is I feel like Whyte was a great pick for Itauma. Ageing PED users, who have to fight clean, usually don’t look good. This is not a knock on Whyte. I’m just stating facts, so that we can put Itauma’s performance in proper context. Nevertheless, Itauma did what he was supposed to do. And not everyone in that position does what they’re supposed to do. Itauma looked sensational and I was impressed, although I expected him to do what he did.
My list of fighters under 30 who have pound-for-pound number one potential… “Bam” Rodriguez, “Boots” Ennis, David Benavidez, Shakur Stevenson, Andy Cruz and Moses Itauma. I don’t mean to nitpick your list but “Tank” Davis is 30 already.
Right this second I would favor Usyk to defeat Itauma. But that’s because I just don’t know enough about Itauma. I would like to see him against multiple opponents better than Whyte. There are some solid UK heavyweights he can fight in the near future to give us a better determination of where he is. We haven’t seen him take a big punch. Every significant heavyweight in history has been visibly hurt, dropped or stopped. We have to see how he reacts to that. We also have to see how he navigates through deep rounds if he’s not dominating his opponent. We have to see if can adjust or if he falls apart under resistance. Time will tell all.
But I want to add something. Itauma looks the part. He has a pleasing style and demeanor. We just have to see how he evolves. I also want to add that special fighters have the ability to skip steps in their progression and win world titles at an early age. I will give you a list of fighters who won world titles versus formidable opponents at very early ages. Sometimes they were the favorite; xometimes the underdog; sometimes they had the proper resumes to give them the experience they needed. Sometimes they didn’t and still won…
Tommy Hearns was 21 when he fought Pipino Cuevas, who had 10 title defenses. Hearns KO’d him win two rounds. Wilfred Benitez was 17 when he fought Antonio Cervantes to win his first world title. Roberto Duran was 21 when he fought Ken Buchanan for his first world title. Floyd Mayweather was 21 when he fought Genaro Hernandez for his first world title. James Toney was 22 when he fought Michael Nunn for his first world title – in Nunn’s hometown. Ray Leonard was 23 when he fought Benitez for his first world title. Muhammad Ali was 22 when he fought Sonny Liston for his first world title as an 8-1 underdog. Mike Tyson was 20 when he fought Trevor Berbick for his first world title. Felix Trinidad was 20 when he fought Maurice Blocker for his first world title. Evander Holyfield was 23 years old and had 11 fights when he fought Dwight Qawi for his first title. I have at least 20 more names to add. But I’m sure you get the point. Just because the public may not know if Itauma is ready doesn't mean his team won't know. Oftentimes I have seen these fights, and the younger unknown great fighter in the making won.
My point is if Itauma and his team agree he’s ready for Usyk then let him fight. Personally, I feel this is the worst era of boxing in history. We literally wait five or more years for intriguing fights while fighters are active. Mandatories do not get enforced and most of the participants lie about failed negotiations. So if a phenom like Itauma and his team want the big fight, I say let them have it and let them prove it. I can’t say how a fight would go between Usyk and Itauma because I need to see more of Itauma. But I do feel that Itauma would be the most talented fighter Usyk fought at heavyweight. I also feel that Usyk’s style is often predicated on getting outside of the orthodox fighter’s lead foot. Because Itauma is a southpaw, that dynamic won’t be a factor. I also feel like Itauma has a commanding jab. It’s fast, sharp, and whippy. He also is consistent with it to the head and body. Itauma is also a good body puncher, which seems to be an issue for Usyk. All in all, while I think Usyk would most likely be too much for him. Itauma has many things going for him in this match up.
Most prevalent is his age. Usyk is 38 and Itauma is 20. That’s 18 years of wear and tear that Usyk has on him that Itauma does not. In my experiences in the gym, there is a vast difference in reaction time with that much of an age gap, even if the older fighter is better.
If there was an Olympic-style tournament featuring every heavyweight in the world, who would you pick to win it? I assume most would pick Oleksandr Usyk. I would lean towards Agit Kabayel or Moses Itauma. I think they’re both similar to Usyk in terms of skill – I just think they’re younger and fresher. I think we live in an era where the old guys get the spotlight and the young guys have to wait, even if they’re ready to be the best now. Am I overvaluing the talents of Kabayel and Itauma? Or do you feel like they’re possibly the best of best right now?
Bread’s response: I would pick Usyk to win the tournament. But Itauma and Kabayel would be my number two and three seeds. I can’t go against Usyk – he’s done too much. On top of that, he’s proven his superiority by beating each of Fury, Joshua and Dubois twice. But out of the rest of the field, I think Itauma and Kabayel would have the most success.
What’s up, coach?
I been following the Roy Jones versus Floyd talks and I’m curious what your thoughts are. Roy says Floyd never fought any of championship level fighters in their primes. and especially never fought any “black champion” level fighters in their primes. Do you agree with Roy? He also said there’s no way Floyd would’ve beaten Sugar Ray Leonard. Do you think Floyd had a shot to beat Sugar Ray at their respective primes?
Bread’s response: Listen, I think the Roy Jones vs Floyd Mayweather beef is going a little too far. I don’t even want to comment because it’s way too personal over an opinion about a hypothetical fight that can never happen. Nothing good will come out of this.
Ironically, Sugar Ray Leonard, Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather are the Mount Rushmore of fighters in my lifetime. I was alive to see and witness their apex, not just their prime, and those are most likely the four best, with only a select few who can argue. Today, two of those guys are at odds over a hypothetical fight. For me it’s not about right or wrong. It’s about not piling on to this situation that literally serves no purpose.
What’s your excuse now for “Tank” Davis? Are you disappointed your boy is making you look bad? You had him on your pound-for-pound list without merit, and now in the one competitive fight he had, which was scored a draw, he backs out of a rematch to fight an exhibition with a YouTuber. These type of fights and fighters have ruined the sport of boxing. All Tank did was take the blueprint from Mayweather. I’m curious as to how you will spin this, Breadman.
Bread’s response: I don’t get disappointed in people I don’t know – I’m too old for that. I also don’t get too emotionally invested in current fighters because I earn a living in boxing, so I understand the business side. So no, I’m not disappointed in “Tank”. I take this fight for what it is – a money grab. I’ve read Tank will make $100M. But that can be a rumor. Whatever he’s making, I’m going to assume it’s much more than he would’ve made in the Lamont Roach rematch. Speaking of Lamont Roach, that’s the person I feel bad for. I feel like he got screwed over by the business of boxing. Not one person in particular – just the overall business.
Back to Tank. No, he’s not on my pound-for-pound list anymore. Those lists are fluid but he won’t be in my top 10. Does that make you feel better? I feel like you guys take this too personally as fans when you don’t have to support the events you don’t like.
As for Tank, I still think he’s a terrific talent. But I also feel like his priority is making money over his legacy, and that’s okay. But all competitive people want attribution, and when the best fighters of the decade get talked about – when it’s time to go to the hall of fame – Tank not fighting the Lamont Roach rematch will come up. Tank not making fights with Teofimo Lopez, Devin Haney or Shakur Stevenson will come up. It’s just what it is, and Tank has to live with that. A fighter can have a great legacy and make big money simultaneously. Some choose both. Some choose money. I respect all decisions, and my perspective will be directed according to their choices.
Tank can change things after this exhibition by simply fighting Stevenson. All will be forgiven if he fights that fight. Again, perspectives are fluid. I also want to add – I heard Tank was fighting Manny Pacquiao, and I’m honestly glad he isn’t. I don’t want to see Manny get KO’d at this point in his life.
I also want to say that I hope that other fighters get a chance to fight real fights on this card. I try to look at the glass as half full. Boxing is not in a good place right now. There are very few smaller platforms for grassroots fighters. No one seems to want to invest in up-and-coming fighters. So oftentimes up-and-coming fighters and even established fighters can only fight if they’re on the undercard of big shows.
For example, I know for a fact that Stephen Fulton was going to be on the Davis-Roach rematch card. Because that card was cancelled, Fulton didn’t get to fight at all. Fulton is a two-division champion and he’s the same age as Tank. A fighter like Fulton should be on this card.
This is also the time for grassroots promoters to get rich. This is the time for local promoters in fight cities like Philly, Detroit, New York, Boston, Phoenix, Atlantic City, Washington DC and LA to make a big move. It’s also time for a network to use their common sense. In order for a fighter like Tank to get where he is, he had to get built up in formative years as a fighter. No one starts out a superstar.
Hey Mr Edwards,
Trust you and yours are doing well. I haven't written in for a while but I’ve kept close tabs. Hard to miss how you mauled a certain JB for his unresearched criticism of you. But on to what I’m about… The British are eternal optimists. So Moses Itauma does what he was expected to do, gets rid of a man in Dillian Whyte, who was never much to begin with and simply wouldn’t do any good to anyone as a sparring partner right now, and Itauma is suddenly the man to obliterate Oleksandr Usyk? Come on. I have listened to the comparisons made between him and Mike Tyson and honestly, apart from it being a fun exercise, I don’t see any comparison and I certainly don’t see the boxing merit in him being catapulted into a showdown with Usyk at this stage of his career. There appears to be a fervent wish in Britain to take revenge on Usyk for bursting the bubbles of Anthony Joshua, Daniel Dubois and Tyson Fury in quick succession, thus bringing to a decisive end an imaginary British domination of the heavyweight division after many decades of the horizontal British heavyweight. But in asking for Usyk, the old maxim applies – be careful what you wish for. Let’s be honest, the only reason the British appeared to dominate the heavyweight division for a couple of years is the dominance of basketball in the United States. If boxing had continued to attract those big African-American boys as a mainstream sport, the heavyweight division would not be so stagnant in the USA. The longevity of Deontay Wilder and the number of title defences he had was not a glorious chapter in the history of the heavyweight division in the United States. It was full and irrevocable proof of how far the standard had fallen. I know you hold Itauma in high regard as a prospect and you believe that because the great champions – Ali; Louis; Tyson; Foreman, etc – were all under 25 when they had their title shots there should be nothing standing in the way of Itauma going for the big prize right now. But it will be a sad day.
Let me just illustrate by way of some examples. Ali, before he “shook up the world” against Sonny Liston, had fought his fair share of soft touches, just like all the great heavyweights before him. However, he had also been knocked senseless by Henry Cooper and had recovered to stop Cooper in the very next round. He had stopped the ageless Archie Moore. By the time he knocked Trevor Berbick down three times with one punch, Tyson, with whom Itauma is being compared, had come through two tough back-to-back tests against James Tillis and Mitch Green. So, who has Itauma beaten to justify him being given even an outsider’s chance against Usyk? Maybe the British need a little reminding about Usyk. Usyk is an Olympic gold medalist; Itauma had a meagre 24 amateur fights and no amateur honours. Usyk unified the entire cruiserweight division – wait a minute, by fighting every guy in his backyard. And he jumped up from cruiserweight to clean out the entire heavyweight division. And Itauma does to him what he did to Whyte? Dream on, you patriotic Brits. I can’t wait for that fight and I will break down the one-sided beat down of Itauma for everyone closer to that fight if someone in Britain actually wants to ruin a prospect.
Am I wrong, Mr Edwards? Mythical match-up, Felix Trinidad v Sugar Ray Leonard at 147lbs. I don't know if you have ever been asked about that before. I honestly cannot see anyone in history beating Leonard at 147lbs except if they have a freak evening like Roberto Duran had in Montreal. What do you think, Mr Edwards? I don’t know – maybe Sugar Ray Robinson beats him, but I don’t think Robinson ever faced someone with the speed, killer instinct and footwork of Leonard. Keep punching, Mr Edwards.
Katlholo,
Johannesburg, South Africa.
Bread’s response: I agree with you about the UK media. They really pump up and support their fighters and usually their fighters don’t live up to the hype. With the exception of Lennox Lewis, the UK has never produced a universally accepted great heavyweight. I also agree that Ali and Tyson had better preparation than Itauma for their first title fights. But Itauma can get that experience in the next couple of fights if his team does it right.
Where we reach a crossroad is you telling me Usyk will destroy Itauma. That’s just your prediction. I can’t say if you’re right or wrong; it’s your subjective point of view. They have to fight for your opinion to be deemed a fact. Here is what I will say – Itauma passes the eyeball test for me. It’s something about him that does it for me. I got the same feeling when I first saw Marco Antonio Barrera. I said to myself “That kid is going to be special”. Barrera was further along than Itauma but nevertheless it was before his HBO After Dark days. My guts tell me Itauma has great potential. Now, it’s going to take a whole lot for him to reach that potential, but I think he has it. I’m not going to say Usyk destroys him because special fighters out-kick their development process – they can skip steps and still be successful. I favor Usyk to beat him now, but I can't lie and say I'm not intrigued by the fight.
In my opinion Sugar Ray Leonard is the second best welterweight ever. I love “Tito” Trinidad. He’s one of my favorite fighters, but I think he’s tailor made for Ray Leonard. I think Leonard beats him in a 15 or 12-round fight. Leonard is just a little too complete for Trinidad – he would beat him to the punch. He has more amateur pedigree; he has equal conditioning, and he has the durability to handle Tito’s power. He’s just as mean. Tito can’t beat Ray Leonard. It’s a match up of an A fighter in Tito versus a Mount Rushmore fighter in Leonard.
Sup Bread,
The way you avoid answering Lennox Lewis mythical match-up questions makes me feel that you also consider him the most difficult heavyweight to beat. I personally feel if you can beat him on the outside, then you can beat him. He clinches you on the inside and he is bigger and stronger than all all-time great heavyweight swarmers, so I do not favor Liston or Frazier, but what if someone out-jabs him.? He was out-jabbed by Mercer, and Holmes had a brutal jab. Ali and Norton had a brutal jab. Don’t you think that Holmes will win the outside exchanges with his jab and then clinch him if he tries to come close? What about someone like Bowe, who could do both boxing and brawling and is much faster than Lewis? You really think he can beat the likes of Bowe, Ali, Holmes, Foreman, etc?
Regards,
Saurabh
Bread’s Response: I don’t avoid questions about Lennox Lewis – I’m answering yours, as I have several others. All I said is that Lewis is a very tough head-to-head match-up for anyone. It doesn’t mean he can beat anyone. But it does mean he can give all of the other greats a tough fight. If you named the top 15 heavyweights ever, I believe Lewis could take at least one out of three fights with at least 10 of the top 15.
I would pick Ali to beat Lewis. I would pick Foreman to beat him, but Lewis would have a shot to clip Foreman because of Foreman’s upright stature. Some days I feel Holmes could outbox Lewis. Some days I feel like Tim Witherspoon gave Holmes life and death and Lewis could too. Bowe is interesting. Bowe has a better all-round game than Lewis. But that doesn’t mean he could beat him. But Bowe chose not to fight him when he could have. Lewis fought more killers than Bowe did and they fought in the same era and he outlasted him. That’s a big deal. And this is coming from someone who thinks their amateur fight ended prematurely.
I’m just an objective, hardcore boxing guy who calls it not only how I see it, but how it happened. Lennox Lewis was better than he was given credit for while his career was going on. Go back and watch how quick he was versus “Razor” Ruddock when he was weighing about 235lbs.
Hi Breadman,
I pray God is blessing and continues to bless you, your family, and the fans of your mailbag and their families. I’m so disappointed in the Jake Paul-“Tank” Davis match-up. I used to be a huge fan of Tank but these types of things turn people against fighters. He has a right to go for the bag, and I have a right as a fan to pray somebody knocks his head off. “Canelo” ducking Bivol and Benavidez – and now Tank ducking Roach. All these idiots who wonder why boxing is held in such contempt by so many people can point to these examples of why people feel this way about the sport. It is shameful and sad. I won’t be tuning in, that’s for sure, for either Crawford vs Canelo or Tank vs Paul. I never thought I would miss the old days when Don King was running boxing but, compared to now, I do miss those days. Better fights were made back then. God bless, and take care,
BG, from Philly
Bread’s response: You have a right to feel how you feel. I understand not tuning in to watch an exhibition. But why won’t you watch Canelo vs Crawford? Canelo vs Crawford is a historically significant fight and I think it’s going to be an excellent match up.
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