Does Holyfield have the 2nd Greatest HW Resume All Time?

[soul_survivor]

Moving away from heavyweight and taking into account his time at cruiser, Holy's resume just gets better and better.

[crold1]

I was just thinking about this during a post in the Lewis thread and in all honesty, I can't think of any heavyweight outside of Ali who has a better resume.

Ali's ten best wins just off the top of my head:

1. Foreman by stoppage
2. Frazier 2x
3. Liston 2x both by stoppage
4. Norton 2x
5. Chuvalo
6. Patterson 2x
7. Earnie Shavers
8. Ron Lyle
9. Jerry Quarry
10. Bob Foster

You could even include one of the true GOATs, Archie Moore and then names like Bonavena and co. Out of that top 10 (which isn't exhaustive), there's 5 HOFers, probably all 5 are ATGs too, Foster being one of the bets LHWs ever. Not to mention a loss to Holmes who would carry the division forward in the late 70s and early 80s.

Now, comparing to Holyfield:

1. Mike Tyson 2x
2. Michael Moorer
3. Riddick Bowe
4. George Foreman
5. Alex Stewart
6. Michael Dokes
7. James Douglas (conqueror of Tyson so deserves a spot imo)
8. Larry Holmes
9. John Ruiz
10. Hasim Rahman

This isn't including the draw and then close loss to Lewis, an ATG himself and of course the fact that Holyfield had multiple fights with Bowe , a much bigger, stronger man. Also, we have to remember he beat Ruiz and Rahman when he was 5 years, if not more, past his best. That's wins over 5 HOFers and probably 5 ATGs, with further fights and sadly draws or losses against even more HOFers and ATGs in Lewis and Toney.

Just remarkable from both men, fighting adversity in different ways.

PS I'm not mentioning Holy's time at cruiser for obvious reasons.

So, who else has a resume to rival Ali? Possibly Foreman?

Sound off.

I'd still go with Louis as second best to Ali. He didn't lose for over a dozen years and while the myth of bums of the month has grown, it's overstated. He slayed top ten contenders from Ramage up to Bivins before he was done, lost only to HOFers and beat a bunch of them too. His consistency and dominance was ridiculous.

[soul_survivor]

I'd still go with Louis as second best to Ali. He didn't lose for over a dozen years and while the myth of bums of the month has grown, it's overstated. He slayed top ten contenders from Ramage up to Bivins before he was done, lost only to HOFers and beat a bunch of them too. His consistency and dominance was ridiculous.

I don't think the myth is over done, he fought some absolutely horrendous opponents and in all honesty, the HW division was pretty weak at the time. I can't recall there being any other great heavyweight around at the time he was there. Not to mention he lost to Schmeling, via KO. I know he avenged that but I don't think a top 2 heavyweight should be losing to Schmeling in his prime years.

Btw, this isn't necessarily about ranking the heavyweights but more about their resume, Holyfield has a better one than Louis and even Holmes and Frazier.

[billeau2]

I'd still go with Louis as second best to Ali. He didn't lose for over a dozen years and while the myth of bums of the month has grown, it's overstated. He slayed top ten contenders from Ramage up to Bivins before he was done, lost only to HOFers and beat a bunch of them too. His consistency and dominance was ridiculous.

I think Louis was greater than Holly at heavyweight but I would be interested if anyone can make a case for Louis having a better resume than Holyfield, I know I can't! And BTW thats not to say that Louis did not have an impressive resume.

[billeau2]

Moving away from heavyweight and taking into account his time at cruiser, Holy's resume just gets better and better.

Excellent point.

[billeau2]

I am going to commit a faux pax here and mention Lennox Lewis, I can feel the wrath!!!! and my good friend Welts tells me its bad form to mention names... I don't think Lewis had a stronger resume than Holyfield but I do think Lewis has something working against him that is not his fault.

Because of the perception that he was always ready to get beat, at least here in the colonies lol...Lewis does not get enough credit for his wins over fighters who were very good and conceviably would have done a lot better had Lewis not dominated them. This list would include an (at the time) awesome Shannon Briggs, Tua, who was being compared to Tyson (I know I know) and even a guy like Golata.

lewis also beat Ruddock as an underdog, that does not happen a lot...Holy did it against Tyson. Then when we stack on Morrison, and....Tyson (I know I know not the tyson Holy fought).

Now heres the thing: when we put on this resume holyfield and Vitali and consider mercer (a fight he arguably lost)...well lewis is damn close to Holyfield.

I could consider it credible if someone argued that Lewis had a better resume than Holyfield, though I would give it to Holly, with the caveat that when considering Holly's cruiser weight wins, it definitely goes to Holly.

[soul_survivor]

^^^ I can't argue against Lewis having a good resume, because he does. He is a definite top 10 heavyweight so everyone in there is gonna be great and have done great things. I think Lewis' resume is at times let down with regards to when he faced Tyson and the losses to c level fighters in McCall and Rahman, while Lewis was pretty much in his prime or close to it.

At the very highest level, the level at which Holy, Lewis, Ali and co operated, there's very little between the guys in terms of the quality of opposition they beat. Obviously Ali and Foreman and Holy have a great list of great fighters. But Lewis is just behind.

[LacedUp]

I am going to commit a faux pax here and mention Lennox Lewis, I can feel the wrath!!!! and my good friend Welts tells me its bad form to mention names... I don't think Lewis had a stronger resume than Holyfield but I do think Lewis has something working against him that is not his fault.

Because of the perception that he was always ready to get beat, at least here in the colonies lol...Lewis does not get enough credit for his wins over fighters who were very good and conceviably would have done a lot better had Lewis not dominated them. This list would include an (at the time) awesome Shannon Briggs, Tua, who was being compared to Tyson (I know I know) and even a guy like Golata.

lewis also beat Ruddock as an underdog, that does not happen a lot...Holy did it against Tyson. Then when we stack on Morrison, and....Tyson (I know I know not the tyson Holy fought).

Now heres the thing: when we put on this resume holyfield and Vitali and consider mercer (a fight he arguably lost)...well lewis is damn close to Holyfield.

I could consider it credible if someone argued that Lewis had a better resume than Holyfield, though I would give it to Holly, with the caveat that when considering Holly's cruiser weight wins, it definitely goes to Holly.

You can also add Michael Grant and Vitali Klitschko to that resume incl. other good names like McCall, Bruno, Mason, Mercer, Biggs, Rahman and Tucker.

Not TOP TOP notch, but better than most would agree to.

[GOD-FR33]

Agreed...

^^^ I can't argue against Lewis having a good resume, because he does. He is a definite top 10 heavyweight so everyone in there is gonna be great and have done great things. I think Lewis' resume is at times let down with regards to when he faced Tyson and the losses to c level fighters in McCall and Rahman, while Lewis was pretty much in his prime or close to it.

At the very highest level, the level at which Holy, Lewis, Ali and co operated, there's very little between the guys in terms of the quality of opposition they beat. Obviously Ali and Foreman and Holy have a great list of great fighters. But Lewis is just behind.

Agreed. Lewis's resume is good but Ali, Holy, and Foreman's resume is a notch above.

[soul_survivor]

You can also add Michael Grant and Vitali Klitschko to that resume incl. other good names like McCall, Bruno, Mason, Mercer, Biggs, Rahman and Tucker.

Not TOP TOP notch, but better than most would agree to.

I honestly believe most true boxing fans won't argue the fact that Lewis has a good, if not very good resume. Obviously, as I've said, not truly upper echelon but just a notch below. No shame in that. Lewis is an undoubted top 10 HW.