Jack Dempsey vs Today's Heavyweights

[PRINCEKOOL]

I always say it and I've brought it up in the history section a few years back. Boxers today are better in every aspect but it doesn't mean you can't rank the old generation no. 1 in a subjective P4P list.
What you can't knock is the history behind some of those fights. I mean Joe vs Max how can any HW bouts from today compare to that. America vs Nazi Germany, these guys were fighting for countries. Everything is watered down now adays, we had Tyson Montana vs Dr Steelhammer.
As for Dempsey if you teleported him from back in time then he'd probably be KO'd by Amir Mansour.

Jesse Owen's was running 10.3 wearing leather spikes, living off food stamps and on a cinder/mud track in the 1930's! if he was training and living in this era of athletics track and field! he would be a totally different entity. ..

Sometimes when we are talking about the hypothetically match ups (IN SPORT), you have to take into account all the variables that can effect a fighters performance! Even though i am not a big fan of Dempsey you claim that fighters in today's era are better in every single aspect in comparison to old school fighters! is not quite accurate at all!

But yes due to the way that Dempsey avoided certain fighters, this attitude also goes against him my opinion.

[mlac]

Einstein was not as clever as stephen hawking because it was ages ago innit.

People are just more clever nowadays

[robertzimmerman]

Why do people cut weight in sports?

What are you talking about??

We know why they cut weight, and today the weigh-ins are the day before.

Back in the day, Carl would have been a LHW. But Jack weighed as high as 200 pounds in the days of same day weigh-ins.

Is that registering with you?

Jack was a bigger guy.

His peak weight was 10-20 pounds heavier than what Carl's was. If Carl's peak weight had been higher, he'd have fought at LHW instead of SMW.

They certainly weren't the same size, nor did they possess the same style or attributes.

[robertzimmerman]

That looked like this. Come fight night.




**** out of here. He cut maybe 6-8lbs between chilling and actual fighting. He basically fought where he walks around.

You're a clown.

Let me give you some advice:

Don't label others a clown, after claiming that Froch is the modern day Dempsey, and that they had the same styles.

It's cringeworthy.

You haven't got a ****ing clue what you're talking about.


Regarding your photos:

Dempsey is younger in the second one, and you have no idea when and where the first one was taken, and how long he'd been in camp, if at all.

You know nothing about the man.

You have just desperately googled some images to try and save face.

You've failed.

Give it up.

[Real King Kong]

Gene Tunney is an all-time great. No shame in that.

Tunney would box the breaks off of Klitschko or Tyson Fury.

We have no idea how good tunney or dempsey actually were. To really know that, we would have to have seen their fights and the fights of their opposition to put it all in context. I'd be willing to bet if dempsey was kept at bay by tunney, that he'd struggle mightily with the extra 6 inces of height and reach of wlad tho.

[Kigali]

We have no idea how good tunney or dempsey actually were. To really know that, we would have to have seen their fights and the fights of their opposition to put it all in context. I'd be willing to bet if dempsey was kept at bay by tunney, that he'd struggle mightily with the extra 6 inces of height and reach of wlad tho.

...but we do know Vlad and Fury ain't ****.

That we know

[billeau2]

These threads are always cringe worthy. Some sig worthy material here though: "people are faster now"... REally? So genetically our autonomic nervous system has changed huh? Ted Williams the hitter remains one of a few scoring incredibly high on a reflex test given to pilots...that was in what the early 40's?

"Weight makes great" lets dispel this: Any fighter so desiring could put weight on. Ray Corso says it best "the heavyweight division is an open division." And there is more to a heavyweight than weight...It has to do with your thickness, the size of your bones, your comfort level, your punch tolerance, etc.

Now lets talk about Dempsey: The end of the eighties was a true milestone... Tyson specifically was a special case because with Tyson had been a few select trainers who had actually seen the end of Jack Johnson's career in the ring, all the way up to iron mike. Whats interesting is a majority of these guys, and more than a few who had been there for Dempsey after JJ..., were asked who they thought the best heavy weight fighter they ever got to see...Most of them suprisingly chose Dempsey. Furthermore Tunney, who worked with Corbett, fought the likes of Greb, thought Dempsey was the best he ever fought.

With this in mind what would happen if Dempsey fought in the modern era? This is a very interesting question and there is actually some data. Gene Tunney trained with Corbett to develop his style. Corbett, though technically not a bare knuckles fighter was the last great heavyweight of that era. His technical approach, distancing, strategies were derived from working with Corbett who he admired as a mentor.

Tunney used these methods against the very intelligent and modern Dempsey. Dempsey's approach, coming in and establishing a true puncher's distance, as opposed to the James Figg derived system which was really a fencing system. To understand this watch how Jack Johnson, for example, starts his flurries with a step in, like he is running in, and watch how he sets up in doing this from at least 3 feet away from his opponent. Tunney was always at this distance, and would set up his attacks from this distance when given a chance... much like a fencer will start off with a lunge, and counter off the parry.

In this way there was a clear distinction between attack and defend, and instead of counter punching per se, one would catch the punches with their gloves to parry. Dempsey by contrast would start his attack right from a squared up position in front, his counters resulting from slipping the punches and coming into the body. Dempsey would also throw a hard jab, often stepping in, instead of a lead hand punch, which the old system used. Tunney knew a jab but often, like his mentor and the old system, would keep the foward hand like a piston, and throw it with no turn of the wrist, towards the bottom of the chin. This was a knock out blow when delivered with small gloves or no gloves, but would hardly register with gloves used today.

My point is that Dempsey in theory and practice was a harbinger to the final orthodoxy that was Joe Louis. But what Louis emphasized in technical punches that were perfectly executed, Dempsey was more interested in hitting things hard and working into position where an untelegraphed shot, could be delivered...at such a range that it could KO one in a telephone booth! for those who remember "telephone booths." lol

And that...is what made Jack so ****ing dangerous folks...He was untelegraphed, could hit you at any time because of his new distance, being squared up at all times, and had perfected the short hook, stepping jab and body attack. Against the taller fighters today I see no evidence that they could stop this attack. Dempsey was relentless, was really a lot like prime Tyson...Tyson studied Dempsey and really aped his techniques.

[ShoulderRoll]

We have no idea how good tunney or dempsey actually were. To really know that, we would have to have seen their fights and the fights of their opposition to put it all in context. I'd be willing to bet if dempsey was kept at bay by tunney, that he'd struggle mightily with the extra 6 inces of height and reach of wlad tho.

There's video of Tunney on YouTube. You should watch it, the guy glides around the ring smoother than Muhammad Ali.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Dempsey could be a heavyweight easily. You all don't know much about Dempsey but I have done a lot of research on him. Before the 2nd Tunney fight Dempsey was 227 lbs. He trained down to 205 lbs and was in good fighting condition but Tunney was fast and elusive so Dempsey trained down to 192 in order to be fast enough to stay with Tunney. If Dempsey was ready to fight at 205 lbs then he probably could have bulked up a little more for a 12 rdr against big guys who aren't fast/elusive.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

We have no idea how good tunney or dempsey actually were. To really know that, we would have to have seen their fights and the fights of their opposition to put it all in context. I'd be willing to bet if dempsey was kept at bay by tunney, that he'd struggle mightily with the extra 6 inces of height and reach of wlad tho.

We have plenty of Dempsey's fights on film. He had absolutely no problem with big men. In fact he feasted upon them. Everyone from Dempsey's era who knew a lick about boxing said the guy to beat him would have to be a defensive genius, light, and fast.