What history tells us about conditioning and boxing

[billeau2]

There have been many attempts to create a failsafe system, a consistant and better conditioned fighter who can throw the same amount of punches from the first round on through the end of the fight. It seems though that this has been more of a problem for the modern fighters.

Madianna is a perfect example. He was at a cross roads when he had to figure out a conditioning regime that would allow him to pressure Floyd all the way through the fight. De La Hoya is another fighter who was known for fighting well for a while during the fight and then slacking off. It seems like today we see a tremendous amount of these problems...despite the fact that fitness knowledge is suposed to be progressive, athletes are supposed to be getting better, the fights last less rounds, there seems a geniune problem with pressure guys being able to fight hard for the entire fight.

There is ample evidence that this was not such an issue in the bygone eras of boxing where fighters fought more rounds and were active through the entire fight.

Fighters used to do road work, calesthenics, some basic weight training, bag work....and they used to fight. They fought more rounds in the ring, more rounds in the gym. A great example is James Toney. As a fat heavyweight against Rahman, Toney looked like a bad fat joke, while Rahman looked chiselled, like a greek statue. Despite appearances, Toney threw more punches than Rahman. Toney's way of traning for the fight was to spar rounds, over and over again.

What this tells me is that fighting rounds, sparring rounds are the primary way that keep a fighter in great shape, not any new innovative fitness concepts. This makes sense when we consider that repetition of movements and familiarity with patterns of movement make a person perform the movements more efficiently and more naturally.

Modern day fighters may look better sometimes, vis a vis David Haye for example...but much like Haye, who has problems with stamina, despite the looks fighting rounds and experience made a better conditioned fighter for the purposes of the ring. It would not suprise me if Tony Galenta, for example, had more stamina than David Haye.

The Klits hold on for dear life often.... And now we have some sense of why this may be!

[Ray Corso]

When your reach the highest levels of competition boxing is 90% mental toughness not physical!
Ray

[billeau2]

When your reach the highest levels of competition boxing is 90% mental toughness not physical!
Ray

In Western forms of combat one uses the body as an instrument of the mind by imposing more and more on the body....conquering its limitations, making these limits mere signposts. On many Eastern disciplines the practicioner is more concerned with control per se. Making the body totally an instrument of his/her will with no wasted processes, like the fear a novice might experience.

So on one hand we have Jack Lalaine and Gene Lebell two stong strong men...Jack was able to literally pull a tug boat with his teeth while swimming haha. On the other hand we have the Buddhist monks who continue to lay down this life as a form of protest...These monks are lighted in flame and calmly remain in repose as the body burns to a crisp.

The commanality is the perfection is in making the body function willfully in a capacity most could only hope for.

It is quite true what you say and the proof is in how men could perform then and the way men today in the ring often look at shortcuts which bare little fruit and, while fruitful, are often enough simply a diversion.

[Young Money]

I figured it was more due to Maidana's style which is a lot more physical/swarming.

Toney's style allows him to fight at a more measured pace, efficient in energy and picking his shots.

[billeau2]

I figured it was more due to Maidana's style which is a lot more physical/swarming.

Toney's style allows him to fight at a more measured pace, efficient in energy and picking his shots.

Well.....Interestingly enough....There does seem to be a real lack of pressure guys now a days. The pressure guys have to be ready physically and mentally to chase a man down and it takes skill and endurance. Thats what makes Hollyfield a great heavyweight, it is what makes Ward an elite fighter.

What we get a lot of is punchers. But guys like Lamotta, Homicide Hank, etc are not around as much today.

Regarding Madianna, his best work is as a pressure fighter and he should have no problems conditioning to pressure for 3 minutes of every round....Yet even with all the stuff they tried he had to conserve at times. Yet the old school guys, without oxygen masks managed to do it....go figure? I think it has to do with mental aspects (as Ray said) and experience fighting rounds to a point where the body becomes hyper efficient and can extend itself for the rounds necessary.

For example: one may lift weights and do cardio and be in superb shape (this actually happened to a friend of mine) but....when one had to help move a friend with furniture up stairs in San Francisco, up five flights of steps! This in shape guy could do very little. meanwhile the out of shape moving men, taking smoking breaks every 15 minutes and all, did a lot of the moving.

You see what this example tells us?

[Anthony342]

That you need experience in the specific task to have better endurance for it? I agree, but cardio is supposed to increase endurance too, so why does that not help as well?

[billeau2]

That you need experience in the specific task to have better endurance for it? I agree, but cardio is supposed to increase endurance too, so why does that not help as well?

Its not that it does not help. It just so happens that there is no substitute for doing the activity we are training for. Cardo is necessary but, maybe road work is enough.

[#1Assassin]

its primarily the muscle memory old school fighters built by honing their craft to a different degree than fighters do today. mental toughness plays a big part as well as does the fact that modern fighters seem to carry a lot more bulk and cut more weight.

being relaxed and confident allows you to preserve a tremendous amount of energy, guys like DLH and taylor are always tense in the ring. guys like toney and duran look like they might as well be playing an unfriendly round of golf.

[StarshipTrooper]

That you need experience in the specific task to have better endurance for it? I agree, but cardio is supposed to increase endurance too, so why does that not help as well?

The biggest part of it is the obsession with muscle mass and body sculpting. That ripped look makes shallow idiots like Elroy aka HWeightblogger get major woodies, but all that muscle mass sucks up a lot of oxygen so that a fighter winds up with an oxygen deficit even if they do cardio training. Hence less stamina than fighters from eras less obsessed with appearance and more concerned with substance.

[billeau2]

The biggest part of it is the obsession with muscle mass and body sculpting. That ripped look makes shallow idiots like Elroy aka HWeightblogger get major woodies, but all that muscle mass sucks up a lot of oxygen so that a fighter winds up with an oxygen deficit even if they do cardio training. Hence less stamina than fighters from eras less obsessed with appearance and more concerned with substance.

Here is the proof of that:

If muscle mass was absolute with respect to conditioning it would mean that a man weighing 230 pounds, with about 5% body fat should be able to run a marathon and win against a skinny, less muscled skinny marathon runner because even though the man carries more weight, he also carries more muscles to do work. Well, we know thats not true. marathon runners are built for the activity and do a great job running.

boxers must have a body conditioned to fight and the optimum physique is not the chiselled ripped physique that is considered so "in shape."

The other proof of this is that all useful work performed by muscles is generated from our core muscle group from the abdomen and back outwards. In fact some of the absolute strongest people in the world look fat because of extended well muscled (not chiseled) abdominal and back muscles. Chiseled muscles look good and a body trained to work isolated muscle areas looks primed, but if I want to move stuff up five flights of steps, give me moving men who move things rather than weight lifters, boxers or marathon runners!