Resume, career, accomplishments: Adamek vs Haye, you decide...

[jrosales13]

Adamek's LHW career:

- He won a vacant alphabet title at LHW against Paul Briggs by MD. Adamek did not beat anybody of note at LHW - only Briggs twice (a nobody) and Ulrich (European champ), both were not big names. He lost his first fight against top-level competition (a wide-UD to Chad Dawson).

Cruiserweight careers:

Adamek:

- At Cruiserweight Adamek had only 2 wins of note; the first against a past-prime O'Neil Bell, and the second was the best win of his career - against Steve Cunningham, which was a very good win it must be said. After two routine defenses he moved up to HW.

- At Cruiserweight Adamek had 7 fights, 5 of which were won by stoppage. His KO ratio at CW was therefore 71%.

Haye:

- Only loss came in his 11th pro fight in his first big fight (IBO Cruiserweight title) against a former world titlist Carl Thompson, who was past-prime, this however can be forgiven as Haye was very green.

- His first big win came in his 19th fight against Giacobbe Fragomeni. Haye was the first man to beat Fragomeni, who himself later went on to win a world title.

- Haye later defeated Mormeck on his home turf by TKO to win the WBC and WBA Cruiserweight titles, as well as the lineal title.

- He then unified against a prime Enzo Maccarinelli (28-1) who had several successful defenses of his WBO title.

- Haye therefore became lineal and undisputed Cruiserweight champion.

- Haye had 19 fights at the Cruiserweight limit with 18 wins, 17 of which were via stoppage. His KO ratio was therefore 89.5%.

Heavyweight careers:

Adamek:

- He has fought several C-class fighters at HW.

- His best win was an majority decision over Arreola, who is a B-class fighter that is over-weight and easy-to-beat.

- It should also be noted that Adamek has 2 stoppages at HW out of 5 fights, a 40% KO ratio.

Haye:

- After a win over journeyman Monte Barrett he fought for the WBA Heavyweight title, winning an MD over Nikolai Valuev in Germany.

- He has since defended it twice. Once against a mandatory, former champion John Ruiz (past-prime) and next against European champion Audley Harrison.

- At Heavyweight, Haye has had 7 fights (including 2 early in his career). He has won all 7 with 6 by stoppage, that is a KO ratio of 86%.

Other facts and observations:

- Haye and Adamek are both two-division champions.

- Haye has a record of 5-0 (4 KOs) in world title fights. 80% KO ratio.

- Adamek has a record of 6-1 (3 KOs) in world title fights. 43% KO ratio.

- Neither Haye or Adamek have ever won a UD in a world title fight; Adamek has won two MDs and a SD, where as Haye has won 1 MD.

- Given that Adamek has a low KO ratio in title fights (40%) and has only won close decisions in title fights, it could be suggested that Adamek lacks killer instinct.

- Haye has never been outboxed over 12 rounds. His only loss was a KO early in his career. Adamek however has lost a wide-UD at LHW to Dawson.

- Adamek has a career KO ratio of 64%. Where as Haye's ratio is 88%.

- Haye has beaten 5 world titlists (Fragomeni, Mormeck, Maccarinelli, Valuev, Ruiz).

- Adamek has beaten 2 world titlists (Bell, Cunningham).

- Haye has lost to 1 world titlist (Thompson), so too has Adamek (Dawson).

- Adamek has never unified a division, where as Haye unified the Cruiserweight division by defeating Maccarinelli.

- Haye became lineal champion at CW by de-throwning the current champion (Mormeck). Adamek won the vacant lineal title.


Summary:

Haye:

- Two division champion.
- Former undisputed, and lineal, Cruiserweight champion.
- Current WBA Heavyweight champion.
- Defeated 5 world titlists.
- 5-0 (4) in title fights.
- KO ratio of 89.5% at Cruiserweight, 86% at Heavyweight, and 88% overall.
- Rated at number 2 by The Ring at HW, weeks on list: 94.

Adamek

- Two-division champion (LHW and CW)
- Former lineal CW champ
- Has defeated 2 world titlists.
- 6-1-0 (3) in title fights.
- KO ratio of 71% at CW, 40% at Heavyweight, and 64% overall.
- Rated at number 4 by The Ring at HW, weeks on list: 37.

______________________________

The winner in my opinion is David Haye. Haye has accomplished more in his career and in a shorter space of time too. Haye is also bigger, faster, stronger and more athletic than Adamek; if they were to ever fight I therefore believe that Haye would win by stoppage. I do like Adamek though, he is a good boxer.


/THREAD

This is a much better comparison than the TS.

The only thing I don't like is the mentioning of KO ration. That doesn't matter at all.

Who has the better resume/accomplishments? In a P4P sense I would give the edge to Adamek.

At HW who has the better resume/accomplishment? I think they're quite even.

Who is more deserving to fight Wlad? I would rather have them fight and the winner could fight Wlad. But, that is not happening.

[jrosales13]

Ok, good defense of Gayevid's CW resume. But you can't really say Fragiomenni was any good.

Fragomeni is a solid win

Haye is probably top 20 CW, considering intangibles, but if you take strict numbers and records, he isn't top 20. No top 20 has one defense and two title fights.

Is that your logic? Only asking cuz' you have Toney in the top 10 and he has zero defenses and only 1 title fight.

Seems like a flawed logic to me.

[£-4-£]

This is a much better comparison than the TS.

The only thing I don't like is the mentioning of KO ration. That doesn't matter at all.

Who has the better resume/accomplishments? In a P4P sense I would give the edge to Adamek.

At HW who has the better resume/accomplishment? I think they're quite even.

Who is more deserving to fight Wlad? I would rather have them fight and the winner could fight Wlad. But, that is not happening.

Personally, I think Haye's wins over Mormeck, Maccarinelli, Valuev and Fragomeni give him the edge over Adamek. Just slightly in terms of better opposition faced.

Accomplishments, I have to give it to Haye. Adamek has yet to win a title at HW and his best win at HW is an MD win over Arreola (he's ranked 10 by The Ring but I feel as though that's a bit high).

The deciding factor in my eyes though is the fact that Haye beat the defending lineal champ at CW (Mormeck). Adamek only became lineal champion when the number 1 and number 2 fighters faced off to create a new lineage (himself and Cunningham).

Haye's win over Mormeck > Adamek's win over Cunningham.

In my opinion.

[ShatteredGlass]

I'm no Haye fan, but you have to say Haye.

Adameks LHW reign can be discounted, he basically had a short reign at C/W after Haye vacated (a good reign but short)

and at H/W other than Areolla (who is overrated) he hasn't really done anything.

I honestly belive Valuev is a better win than Areolla.

[Money Shot]

The key difference is Adamek has the balls to fight anyone and does it regularly while Haye ducks and sits down to pee! Props to Adamek for taking the Wlad shot. He's a real warrior this guy, the white Holyfield. I mean fight Sam Peter before Wlad, that takes BALLS.

[£-4-£]

I'm no Haye fan, but you have to say Haye.

Adameks LHW reign can be discounted, he basically had a short reign at C/W after Haye vacated (a good reign but short)

and at H/W other than Areolla (who is overrated) he hasn't really done anything.

I honestly belive Valuev is a better win than Areolla.

Yea good point. Haye's body of work at HW is definitely better. He has wins over Valuez, past-prime Ruiz and the European champion Harrison.

Earlier victories over Barrett and Bonin too.

[£-4-£]

The key difference is Adamek has the balls to fight anyone and does it regularly while Haye ducks and sits down to pee! Props to Adamek for taking the Wlad shot. He's a real warrior this guy, the white Holyfield. I mean fight Sam Peter before Wlad, that takes BALLS.

Who has Haye ducked seriously?

He pulled out of a fight with Wlad due to injury.

Wlad ducked him last week too.

[hweightblogger]

- Haye and Adamek are both two-division champions.

- Haye has a record of 5-0 (4 KOs) in world title fights. 80% KO ratio.

I agree with £-4-£'s post.

Let me also add that Haye has one of the best KOratios amongst all champions and in Ali's times ALL of Haye's fights would have counted as "heavyweight" thus Haye would be approximately on par with George Foreman.

Haye would be a proof of the greatness of the Golden Age of heavyweight boxing.

- Adamek has a record of 6-1 (3 KOs) in world title fights. 43% KO ratio.

Let me also add that Adamek's sub-heavy opponents have started their careers lower than Haye's. Adamek's opponents started at 165 lbs on the average while Haye's started at 176 lbs. Thus Haye has not only a higher KOratio but also against genuine cruiserweights.

- Given that Adamek has a low KO ratio in title fights (40%) and has only won close decisions in title fights, it could be suggested that Adamek lacks killer instinct.

No, that's not the reason.

I analyzed hundreds of records and a drop in KOratio is TYPICAL for natural cruisers who move up to heavyweight. Whereas natural heavies keep their KOratio pretty even.

name              |sub200|200+ |215+ opponents
------------------+------+-----+--------------
Wladimir Klitschko|-     |87.5%|87.5% (42of48)
Lennox Lewis      |-     |75.6%|75.0% (27of36)
David Haye        |87.5% |90.0%|85.7% (6of7)
Muhammad Ali      |79.1% |40.5%|33.3% (5of15)
Mike Tyson        |100.0%|78.0%|73.6% (28of38)
Michael Moorer    |100.0%|51.4%|46.1% (12of26)
Joe Frazier       |100.0%|50.0%|45.4% (5of11)
Evander Holyfield |77.7% |40.0%|34.4% (10of29)
Larry Holmes      |50.0% |58.2%|45.9% (17of37)
Tomasz Adamek     |63.8% |62.5%|40.0% (2of5)
Earnie Shavers    |90.9% |68.4%|47.8% (11of23)

(I excluded WDQs and TDs).

As you see most guys lose their KOchances against heavier opponents, but it's clear that genuine cruisers like Evan Fields, Ali and Michael Moorer lose the most while genuine heavyweights like Wladimir Klitschko or Lennox Lewis lose the least from 200 to 215.

So you have cruiser powerpunchers like Holyfield or Frazier (whom you cannot attest lack of killer instinct) but who utterly failed as soon as the opponents got heavier.

The winner in my opinion is David Haye. Haye has accomplished more in his career

I agree.

[Canelo Phresh]

id like to see adamek merc haye. oddly though i think haye has a better chance against the klits than adamek does but i really would favor adamek over haye in a fight.

[King Ju-Ju]

wladimir fans are like floyd fans. they come up with threads 2 bash haye and pacquiao because their idols are too scared to fight them.