Why WBC the Real Belt

[kafkod]

hold up hold up

Why would a fighter pass up on 31 mil!?

He settled for less - how much was never disclosed - because if he'd insisted on trying to get the full amount it would have driven the WBC into bankruptcy and he would have ended up with nothing.

[OCPancho]

Oldest championship lineages in boxing history.

Great, Ken Norton must have been the real heavyweight champ and not Leon Spinks at that time .
How many title fights did Norton win ?
ZERO.

[DARTH SILKWORMS]

He settled for less - how much was never disclosed

$4.5 million.

$1.5 million up front. $300,000 a year for ten years thereafter.

[kafkod]

$4.5 million.

$1.5 million up front. $300,000 a year for ten years thereafter.

Ok, cheers.

[Marchegiano]

Yes, I thought you were saying the WBC was the first and longest established organization, but I read some of your other comments and understand what you meant now.

The WBA was formed before the WBC, but the WBC's roots go back further.

Kudos to you for covering so many of boxing's important milestones, in chronological order, in the post I quoted earlier, btw.

****, I wasn't expecting that, thanks bud, I appreciate it.

[Marchegiano]

Great, Ken Norton must have been the real heavyweight champ and not Leon Spinks at that time .
How many title fights did Norton win ?
ZERO.

I'm just ****ing around with you guy, I realize you don't giva damn and have some weird hate against one body.

It goes deeper than that actually. Much deeper, and, since I got nothing better to do ima go ahead and drop some narrative to this ****:

So, notice how I continually point out the IBU and NSC and how their official lineages go back much farther than the NBA or WBA?

Yeah, I didn't claim the national sporting club is Sullivan or Corbett's belts though did I?

Corbett retired before he fought Fitzsimmons. James held a vacancy fight for his title. Peter Maher won that fight and James Corbett gave to Peter his title.

Peter would lose to Bob Fitzsimmons before Corbett returned. Bob would lose to Tom Sharkey in 1896, one year prior to Bob vs James. Sharkey won on a fowl no one but the ref Wyatt Earp, yes the lawman from the western movies.

Corbett returns to boxing and claims everyone who won his title after he left are to be stripped and forgotten given he never lost in the ring. The boxing world agrees, Maher, Fitzs, and Sharkey are not considered 'real' champions. Except for by the National Sporting Club over in England way.

Fitz would go on to KO Corbett.

The NSC continued to recognize Sharkey until he lost to Jeffries in the first ever title unification match in boxing history.

From there the NSC lineage would mirror the traditional list you'd find on places like boxrec. Jeffries to Johnson.

In 1909 the NSC was to host a fight between Johnson and Langford. Johnson refused and Sam Langford fought Iron Hague for NSC recognition.


So, oldest, yeah they can claim oldest. Realest? Not even if you include the IBU. The NYSAC was pretty legit but the IBU recognized Lee Savold in the 50s because we ain't done yet with this alternative championship.

Unlike Tom Sharkey Sam Langford was not allowed to try to unify with Johnson. Held back by the colorline, Langford refused to press the issue. So the NSC moved on without him. Sam vacated.

By 1910 the IBU had formed and gotten the NSC to recognize Johnson again given Langford had no interest in being an alternative champion. The IBU became the NSC's world champions.

The NSC becomes the BBBofC and works with the IBU for world championships.

The IBU would continue the traditionally found lineage until 1935, about 15 years after the formation of the NYSAC and NBA. The IBU lacked control over Dempsey and Tunney and was unable to get sanctioning fees until Schmelling, the next european champion. Sharkey would be the first champion to pay sanctioning fee for three sanctioning bodies

in 1934 Max Baer was ordered by the IBU to fight the European champion, Pierre Charles of Belgium. Baer refused and was stripped of IBU recognition. 1935 George Godfrey defeated Pierre Charles and became the IBU champion. Godfrey paid no sanctioning fees and was inactive for the next two years, the IBU moved on to recognize Braddock after Baer was beaten by Braddock.

He doesn't have much to with this tale but it's often missed. Yes, Joe Louis is the first real undisputed champion. He combined the main lineage you see as 'lineal' on places like boxrec with the alternative i've been explaining, AND, the colored. Sully, Dempsey, etc, they had most but it wouldn't be until the colored championship was put to rest you'd have one man defending against the world's best talents. Joe Louis, og badass.

in 46 the IBU became the EBU....mostly because Nazis.

Anyway, from Braddock on to the fifties everything is normal until 1950 rolls around.

Two months after Joe Louis, the first real undisputed champion, retired the E/IBU, in their infinite wisdom, sanctioned a fight between between British champion Bruce Wood**** and Lee Savold for the HW title. Bruce got in a wreck and was unable to fight until 1950. Ezzard Charles would beat Joe Walcott for the NBA, then finally Lee beat Bruce for the EBU, then Ezzard beat Joe Louis for the NYSAC. By 1951 Joe Louis would KO Savold and the EBU would drop their recognition.

For the remainder of the fifties the EBU would slip into a regional role for Europe. By 63, as you know by now, the EBU would continue its arrangement with the BBBofC, they add some more bodies to their circle and agree to be regional bodies for a new world organization called the WBC. From 63 forward WBC world champions are NSC/IBU world champions.

The NSC lineage would be:

Sully
Corbett
Maher
Fitzs
Sharkey
Jeffries
Hart
Burns
Johnson
Langford
Willard
Dempsey
Tunney
Schmeling
Carnera
Baer
Godfrey
Braddock
Louis
Charles
Savold
Walcott
Marciano
Patterson
Johansson
Liston
Ali

So on and so forth as you know it. From there the WBC would be one unit. The WBA would split twice, into the IBF and WBO respectively, you know those champions though. They're always listed on lists like on Boxrec or even Wiki.

Ken Norton? Son, that ain't even close to the weakest claim these roots done made.

[kafkod]

****, I wasn't expecting that, thanks bud, I appreciate it.

Heck, just because we've had differences of opinion in the past, that doesn't mean I can't accept it when you make a valid point. And you put a lot of work into that history of yours, which deserves respect.

It also validates another point you made ..that the WBC have the longest continuous championship lineages of all the sanctioning bodies. Not quite far enough to reach the Ancient Greek Olympic champions though.

I wonder how their new Franchise Champions are going to fit into those lineages? That will be a headache for future historians.

[Marchegiano]

Heck, just because we've had differences of opinion in the past, that doesn't mean I can't accept it when you make a valid point. And you put a lot of work into that history of yours, which deserves respect.

It also validates another point you made ..that the WBC have the longest continuous championship lineages of all the sanctioning bodies. Not quite far enough to reach the Ancient Greek Olympic champions though.

I wonder how their new Franchise Champions are going to fit into those lineages? That will be a headache for future historians.

As much as I hate it, it looks like the way historians will approach future titles is by official rulings. The days when fans say what boxing is are dead.

My only protest to this is to even the past with the present. If I am a bad historian because I don't include WBA regs then other historians who do not include the colored, NSC, or IBU titles are equally poor historians. Because it's very difficult to say, for example, Manuel Charr is as much or more champion than Peter Maher was, and that is exactly what you are doing when you list Charr as a champ and leave off Pete. You being a rhetorical you.

Both fought for a vacant title while the world looked to another as the true champion. Nothing different. If anything, Maher has the stronger case given Maher fought for the real champ's position while Charr was pretense from the start.

So yeah, it is currently frustrating as ****. I doubt the kids in the future will look back on our time with bodies fondly.


It is kinda sad, early on sanctioning bodies did a lot of great things for the sport and are single handedly responsible for taking boxing from gambling dens and putting it in sports arenas.... To become the gamblers and crooks themselves