Who is the greatest of all time? P4P? Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather or RJJ?

[Bundana]

Floyd isnt even in the top 20 of all time. When you metion fighters who fought the best of the best and you cant mention Floyds name. He only fought the best past their prime. His money making was serpurb and his fraudulent built up resume was great. Anyone other than die hard fans would see WOW what a great record. Until someone breaks down the record as the created it.
When you mention great fighters and go back to what made them great you think of the fights they were in. The excitement they brought. The energy they brought. None of them ever glorified the only one thing that was important to Floyd. "we're doing record breaking numbers" (who cares) Any fight of the years? How many times have you been accused of running holding. Or boring fights.
You dont hear that from The greats. Win or lose they were respected as fighters and the battles they won and loss and the comebacks as well. Floyd isnt even in the same bracket of anyone you mentioned!

So the old-timers didn't primarily think of money, brought more excitement and took part in fewer boring fights that today's boxers?

What is it, that makes you conclude, that this is the case?

[them_apples]

Cleartly you have no experience in this matter.

Not trying to insult you, but it shows through.

Jones was cutting weight to make 160.

He fought ONE fight at 154.

He needed to abandon 160. Especially with his explosive style.

He would have been small for 175, but we've seen many fighters succeed their when they were nothing more than over-weight Middleweights.

In fact, the GREATEST FIGHTER OF ALL-TIME comes to mind...

How appropriate for this thread.

we should make a pact to ignore each other, because I literally disagree with everything you say and am growing tired

[PAC-BOY]

So the old-timers didn't primarily think of money, brought more excitement and took part in fewer boring fights that today's boxers?

What is it, that makes you conclude, that this is the case?

Im not gonna go through the history of Boxing with you. You can do that on your own. Educate yourself there. But i will give one example and leave it at that to make a point.
Example being...SRR is one fighter i will use... once fought 5 times in one month in 4 different countries. Also Robinson donated all but $1 of his purse for the Fusari fight to cancer research. Who does that? he refused to cooperate with the Mafia, which controlled much of boxing at the time, and was denied a chance to fight for the welterweight championship. Money didnt control him. And until today...IS known as the greatest Fighter of all time !

[Bundana]

Im not gonna go through the history of Boxing with you. You can do that on your own. Educate yourself there. But i will give one example and leave it at that to make a point.
Example being...SRR is one fighter i will use... once fought 5 times in one month in 4 different countries. Also Robinson donated all but $1 of his purse for the Fusari fight to cancer research. Who does that? he refused to cooperate with the Mafia, which controlled much of boxing at the time, and was denied a chance to fight for the welterweight championship. Money didnt control him. And until today...IS known as the greatest Fighter of all time !

And what on earth has that got to do with anything?

You talk about all the excitement and energy the old-timers put into their fights. And how we don't hear about them taking part in boring fights.

Is that just something you throw out there, because you wish it to be true... or is it something you know to be a fact?

It's you, who brought up these claims… so I don't think it's unfair of me to ask, why this is what you believe.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I'm waiting for you to take a swing at my post. Stop playing games, dumbo. Address your exposed bias.

Why are you falsely claiming that SRR was a weight bully while praising Greb for beating up smaller men, also knowing that Greb fought a higher percentage of his fights outweighing his opponent than SRR did. It just reeks of agenda, and we all know what your agenda is. If anyone is confused about it, they should refer to your Lomachenko is P4P all-time better than SRR thread

It's really itching at you isn't it? ... I can't believe you haven't located it, yet. Probably, at this point, you never will.

I'm waiting for you to take a swing at my post.

I don't really read anything you write. But if you ask me again, I might "take a swing".

Why are you falsely claiming that SRR was a weight bully

How's that a false claim? Have you not scanned his BoxRec profile? After all, you were the one that provided that link.

also knowing that Greb fought a higher percentage of his fights outweighing his opponent than SRR did.

If you're going to make a comment that ridiculous, why not providing supporting evidence?

What Heavyweight Champion dodged Robinson, BTW?

Robinson couldn't even beat the SINGLE Top 10 Light Heavyweight (contemporary rankings) he fought, let alone keep an ATG Heavyweight like Dempsey from refusing to sign a contract.

If anyone is confused about it, they should refer to your Lomachenko is P4P all-time better than SRR thread

You mean the thread where I post evidence to substantiate my claim?

I think every fighter that ever lived can whistle at sum of Roy’s best work.

And just what was his best work extactly? Going the distance with a green Hopkins or weight-drained Toney? Maybe his fight with Ruiz - where the Ref did half his work for him? Surving against Tarver? Ko'ing some over-matched inepxerienced mall cop? Going so many years abusing PEDs w/o getting caught? (He'd make Lance Armstrong blush).

I am impressed by Jones. And I don't discount him in hypothetical H2H Matchups. But what did he really do?

If it's true that there is no footage of Greb he has a valid point. How can there be an eye test??

That's not the point we're at in the conversation.

He has caught on to the fact that Greb would often enter fights weighing in over the Middleweight limit. And that Greb had a penchant for putting on pounds after weighing in.

But the most universally known fact in Boxing (at least among non-casuals) was the Greb was undisciplined. Greb and Walker weren't as bad as Duran, or the likes of Toney, Bowe, Mercer, Douglas. But they didn't mind enjoying their stardom outside the ring.

That's been the case of many fighters. Walker and Greb were just that extraordinary that it didn't derail their careers.

If White fighters avoided fighting Black fighters for whatever reason there is a good case for them being over rated.

I don't know how you would prove either point.

And I am not really sure how it's relevant to the comment I made. We were discussing something else, as I had already resolved the question you raise.

Actually, when I think of fighters shut out of championships, I'm more inclined to think of Irishmen:

Sharkey, Britt, McFarland, Gibbons, Driscoll, Graham, Quarry, Fury.

I'm sure Jews, Italians and others can all name members of their own who were either dodged, or victims of questionable decisions.

Maybe that's not exactly the same thing as refusing to fight an entire race, but you don't agree that chosey-match making and ethnic bias is a universal thing?

we should make a pact to ignore each other, because I literally disagree with everything you say and am growing tired

Because you are asserting things you cannot prove.


We get it, you like to explain that more modern fighters are heavier than fighters from previous eras who were naturally larger men. No one disagrees with that point, on a general level. But you consistently take it too far and over-simplify things.

I know how bulking up, and cutting down works. I have done it. I have helped others do it. I really don't know what experience you could have.

Jones was never a Middleweight when he was fighting. Perhaps in decades past, when fighting 15 Round bouts with day-of weigh-ins, and no "supplements" and modern training methods, he would actually fight at 160. But that's not the Roy Jones the Dear Lord blessed us with.

Im not gonna go through the history of Boxing with you. You can do that on your own. Educate yourself there. But i will give one example and leave it at that to make a point.
Example being...SRR is one fighter i will use... once fought 5 times in one month in 4 different countries. Also Robinson donated all but $1 of his purse for the Fusari fight to cancer research. Who does that? he refused to cooperate with the Mafia, which controlled much of boxing at the time, and was denied a chance to fight for the welterweight championship. Money didnt control him. And until today...IS known as the greatest Fighter of all time !

Good post. I'll remind you, though, that Robinson fought absolute HACKS until he ran into Angott. (The fight everyone says should have been for the Lightweight Championship). Between there and the rematch his opposition picks up. And after defeating Angott at Welterweight, we really see Ray take off. But his career is still littered with has-been's, never-was's, and who-dat's?... Floyd may not have fought any fellow ATG's. At least none in their prime, on equal footing. But I do think the fact that old timers fought often is over-stated.

I mean, Floyd could fight High Schoolers looking to make a quick buck and in one short year add 100 wins to his resume with most of the KO's. You laugh, but many ATGs did almost exactly that. Actually analyze their records, and you'll see. It's amazing Doctors ever cleared many of these guys (cannon fodder, not fighters) even enter the ring.

And what on earth has that got to do with anything?

You talk about all the excitement and energy the old-timers put into their fights. And how we don't hear about them taking part in boring fights.

Is that just something you throw out there, because you wish it to be true... or is it something you know to be a fact?

It's you, who brought up these claims… so I don't think it's unfair of me to ask, why this is what you believe.

What is true is that they couldn't go to the lengths Floyd did to engineer their careers. Even those who did that to build up momentum and make money had to eventually fight opponents with a heart beat if they wanted to wear a belt. And the living breathing opponent (usually) got to meet him on even footing.

Floyd's antics with gloves, and weigh-ins, and dope testing, and venues... it was no different than Anthony Joshua avoiding Fury and Wilder - clearly a guy going to those lengths has something to hide. Floyd was lucky that he carried the Box Office Draw, so fighters always acquiesced. It would not have gone that way for him in decades past.

[TonyGe]

It's really itching at you isn't it? ... I can't believe you haven't located it, yet. Probably, at this point, you never will.



I don't really read anything you write. But if you ask me again, I might "take a swing".





How's that a false claim? Have you not scanned his BoxRec profile? After all, you were the one that provided that link.



If you're going to make a comment that ridiculous, why not providing supporting evidence?

What Heavyweight Champion dodged Robinson, BTW?

Robinson couldn't even beat the SINGLE Top 10 Light Heavyweight (contemporary rankings) he fought, let alone keep an ATG Heavyweight like Dempsey from refusing to sign a contract.



You mean the thread where I post evidence to substantiate my claim?



And just what was his best work extactly? Going the distance with a green Hopkins or weight-drained Toney? Maybe his fight with Ruiz - where the Ref did half his work for him? Surving against Tarver? Ko'ing some over-matched inepxerienced mall cop? Going so many years abusing PEDs w/o getting caught? (He'd make Lance Armstrong blush).

I am impressed by Jones. And I don't discount him in hypothetical H2H Matchups. But what did he really do?



That's not the point we're at in the conversation.

He has caught on to the fact that Greb would often enter fights weighing in over the Middleweight limit. And that Greb had a penchant for putting on pounds after weighing in.

But the most universally known fact in Boxing (at least among non-casuals) was the Greb was undisciplined. Greb and Walker weren't as bad as Duran, or the likes of Toney, Bowe, Mercer, Douglas. But they didn't mind enjoying their stardom outside the ring.

That's been the case of many fighters. Walker and Greb were just that extraordinary that it didn't derail their careers.



I don't know how you would prove either point.

And I am not really sure how it's relevant to the comment I made. We were discussing something else, as I had already resolved the question you raise.

Actually, when I think of fighters shut out of championships, I'm more inclined to think of Irishmen:

Sharkey, Britt, McFarland, Gibbons, Driscoll, Graham, Quarry, Fury.

I'm sure Jews, Italians and others can all name members of their own who were either dodged, or victims of questionable decisions.

Maybe that's not exactly the same thing as refusing to fight an entire race, but you don't agree that chosey-match making and ethnic bias is a universal thing?



Because you are asserting things you cannot prove.


We get it, you like to explain that more modern fighters are heavier than fighters from previous eras who were naturally larger men. No one disagrees with that point, on a general level. But you consistently take it too far and over-simplify things.

I know how bulking up, and cutting down works. I have done it. I have helped others do it. I really don't know what experience you could have.

Jones was never a Middleweight when he was fighting. Perhaps in decades past, when fighting 15 Round bouts with day-of weigh-ins, and no "supplements" and modern training methods, he would actually fight at 160. But that's not the Roy Jones the Dear Lord blessed us with.



Good post. I'll remind you, though, that Robinson fought absolute HACKS until he ran into Angott. (The fight everyone says should have been for the Lightweight Championship). Between there and the rematch his opposition picks up. And after defeating Angott at Welterweight, we really see Ray take off. But his career is still littered with has-been's, never-was's, and who-dat's?... Floyd may not have fought any fellow ATG's. At least none in their prime, on equal footing. But I do think the fact that old timers fought often is over-stated.

I mean, Floyd could fight High Schoolers looking to make a quick buck and in one short year add 100 wins to his resume with most of the KO's. You laugh, but many ATGs did almost exactly that. Actually analyze their records, and you'll see. It's amazing Doctors ever cleared many of these guys (cannon fodder, not fighters) even enter the ring.



What is true is that they couldn't go to the lengths Floyd did to engineer their careers. Even those who did that to build up momentum and make money had to eventually fight opponents with a heart beat if they wanted to wear a belt. And the living breathing opponent (usually) got to meet him on even footing.

Floyd's antics with gloves, and weigh-ins, and dope testing, and venues... it was no different than Anthony Joshua avoiding Fury and Wilder - clearly a guy going to those lengths has something to hide. Floyd was lucky that he carried the Box Office Draw, so fighters always acquiesced. It would not have gone that way for him in decades past.

Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by travestyny View Post
I'm waiting for you to take a swing at my post. Stop playing games, dumbo. Address your exposed bias.

Why are you falsely claiming that SRR was a weight bully while praising Greb for beating up smaller men, also knowing that Greb fought a higher percentage of his fights outweighing his opponent than SRR did. It just reeks of agenda, and we all know what your agenda is. If anyone is confused about it, they should refer to your Lomachenko is P4P all-time better than SRR thread
It's really itching at you isn't it? ... I can't believe you haven't located it, yet. Probably, at this point, you never will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travestyny View Post
I'm waiting for you to take a swing at my post.
I don't really read anything you write. But if you ask me again, I might "take a swing".



Quote:
Originally Posted by travestyny View Post
Why are you falsely claiming that SRR was a weight bully
How's that a false claim? Have you not scanned his BoxRec profile? After all, you were the one that provided that link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travestyny View Post
also knowing that Greb fought a higher percentage of his fights outweighing his opponent than SRR did.
If you're going to make a comment that ridiculous, why not providing supporting evidence?

What Heavyweight Champion dodged Robinson, BTW?

Robinson couldn't even beat the SINGLE Top 10 Light Heavyweight (contemporary rankings) he fought, let alone keep an ATG Heavyweight like Dempsey from refusing to sign a contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travestyny View Post
If anyone is confused about it, they should refer to your Lomachenko is P4P all-time better than SRR thread
You mean the thread where I post evidence to substantiate my claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blond Beast View Post
I think every fighter that ever lived can whistle at sum of Roy’s best work.
And just what was his best work extactly? Going the distance with a green Hopkins or weight-drained Toney? Maybe his fight with Ruiz - where the Ref did half his work for him? Surving against Tarver? Ko'ing some over-matched inepxerienced mall cop? Going so many years abusing PEDs w/o getting caught? (He'd make Lance Armstrong blush).

I am impressed by Jones. And I don't discount him in hypothetical H2H Matchups. But what did he really do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyGe View Post
If it's true that there is no footage of Greb he has a valid point. How can there be an eye test??
That's not the point we're at in the conversation.

He has caught on to the fact that Greb would often enter fights weighing in over the Middleweight limit. And that Greb had a penchant for putting on pounds after weighing in.

But the most universally known fact in Boxing (at least among non-casuals) was the Greb was undisciplined. Greb and Walker weren't as bad as Duran, or the likes of Toney, Bowe, Mercer, Douglas. But they didn't mind enjoying their stardom outside the ring.

That's been the case of many fighters. Walker and Greb were just that extraordinary that it didn't derail their careers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyGe View Post
If White fighters avoided fighting Black fighters for whatever reason there is a good case for them being over rated.
I don't know how you would prove either point.

And I am not really sure how it's relevant to the comment I made. We were discussing something else, as I had already resolved the question you raise.

Actually, when I think of fighters shut out of championships, I'm more inclined to think of Irishmen:

Sharkey, Britt, McFarland, Gibbons, Driscoll, Graham, Quarry, Fury.

I'm sure Jews, Italians and others can all name members of their own who were either dodged, or victims of questionable decisions.

Maybe that's not exactly the same thing as refusing to fight an entire race, but you don't agree that chosey-match making and ethnic bias is a universal thing?

No I don't agree. It's not even remotely the same as avoiding an entire segment if the population because of their skin color no matter how much you trivialized it.

[Rusty Tromboni]

No I don't agree. It's not even remotely the same as avoiding an entire segment if the population because of their skin color no matter how much you trivialized it.

OK, Father Tony I will agree with you. Only if that's what it takes for you to tell me which fighters you believe to have avoided Black fighters, and how that hurts their standing.

If you're going to take a stand, Father, make it mean something.

[travestyny]

It's really itching at you isn't it? ... I can't believe you haven't located it, yet. Probably, at this point, you never will.

I don't really read anything you write. But if you ask me again, I might "take a swing".

How's that a false claim? Have you not scanned his BoxRec profile? After all, you were the one that provided that link.

If you're going to make a comment that ridiculous, why not providing supporting evidence?

What Heavyweight Champion dodged Robinson, BTW?

Robinson couldn't even beat the SINGLE Top 10 Light Heavyweight (contemporary rankings) he fought, let alone keep an ATG Heavyweight like Dempsey from refusing to sign a contract.

You mean the thread where I post evidence to substantiate my claim?

Do you actually think I care about your deflection

It didn't take much to prove you are a coward who is unwilling to address my post which clearly exposes your bias.

Inviting me to play "Guess what bullshlt I'm pulling out of my ass now" doesn't impress me. Try again, coward.

By the way, feel free to scan boxrec and come back and tell me who has a higher percentage of fights outweighing their opponent. I double dare you.

And finally, you know what thread I mean. The thread where nearly every damn post is clowning you. CLOWN

[Bundana]

What is true is that they couldn't go to the lengths Floyd did to engineer their careers. Even those who did that to build up momentum and make money had to eventually fight opponents with a heart beat if they wanted to wear a belt. And the living breathing opponent (usually) got to meet him on even footing.

Floyd's antics with gloves, and weigh-ins, and dope testing, and venues... it was no different than Anthony Joshua avoiding Fury and Wilder - clearly a guy going to those lengths has something to hide. Floyd was lucky that he carried the Box Office Draw, so fighters always acquiesced. It would not have gone that way for him in decades past.

I do not disagree with the points made (by you and PAC-BOY) regarding Mayweather.

What I object to is this romantic notion, that the old-timers were these brave warriors, who fought for pride as much as for money. That the best wanted to meet the best and that they put heart and soul into their fights - thus making them more exciting than what we see today.

It is claims like that I have a problem with. So I'm merely asking... is there anything to this? Anything that backs op these opinions - or is it just something being repeated over and over again, by people who want to denigrate the present?

[MDPopescu]

Sugar Ray Robinson. period. end of paragraph...