Emanuel Steward: Ali is the greatest HW of all time, Wladimir is 8th

[LacedUp]

Well, none of those guys you mentioned established themselves as THE champ after beating Wlad. I mean it more in the sense of, let's say, Lennox's win over Vitali - that looked like a better win years later when Vitali established himself as the next 'man' in the division.

Yeah, if only the top guys fought each other, it would greatly organise the division and truly filter out the potential from the useless. Unfortunately, it's too easy these days to get a title shot and most fights just don't get made...

Anyway, I guess it all depends on the individual ranking the heavies to have their criteria on how to rank them. I agree though, even if K2 were around 5 years earlier, they could have got a lot of great tests, but unfortunately it didn't happen.

Very true - but it's more to put in context of what 1 win will do for you if said fighter turned out to be great. As in, Ross Purrity will always be known for a tough journeyman. His win over Wlad won't do anything to change that, because the general consensus is that Wlad wasn't Wlad when he lost to him.

Or to Brewster or Sanders for that matter.

I'm not sure it looked like a better win. I think (i'm pretty sure) that Vitali was the consensus #1 or #2 in the division at the time anyway. And he proved (in the fight) to be tough as nails. Lennox never really gets full credit for that win anyway - but I get your point.

Well that's why Wlad MUST get the WBC strap to his name as soon as possible so there won't be any other 'world champions' out there than him. Then the rest will have to fight each other.

[Skip Bayless]

this vid is on point. agree with every thing he said. u have to judge a boxer by who he beat and ali beat them all, forman boxing ability is underrated, larry holmes is underrrated full stop, jack johson is overrated and marciano did overachieve but wouldnt last in the ring against the best

[PainfromUkraine]

Very true - but it's more to put in context of what 1 win will do for you if said fighter turned out to be great. As in, Ross Purrity will always be known for a tough journeyman. His win over Wlad won't do anything to change that, because the general consensus is that Wlad wasn't Wlad when he lost to him.

Or to Brewster or Sanders for that matter.

I'm not sure it looked like a better win. I think (i'm pretty sure) that Vitali was the consensus #1 or #2 in the division at the time anyway. And he proved (in the fight) to be tough as nails. Lennox never really gets full credit for that win anyway - but I get your point.

Well that's why Wlad MUST get the WBC strap to his name as soon as possible so there won't be any other 'world champions' out there than him. Then the rest will have to fight each other.

Let me put a hypothetical to you - this is not something I would like to have seen myself and I agree with the reasons it didn't, but just for sake of the debate - where would you rank Wlad if he unified the division and won the WBC belt by beating Vitali?

[LacedUp]

Let me put a hypothetical to you - this is not something I would like to have seen myself and I agree with the reasons it didn't, but just for sake of the debate - where would you rank Wlad if he unified the division and won the WBC belt by beating Vitali?

Obviously a lot higher than what he is at the moment, because he would have beaten the consensus #1 in the division for many years.

I still wouldn't make him top 5 or anything like that, but he would be higher than what he is.

[PainfromUkraine]

Obviously a lot higher than what he is at the moment, because he would have beaten the consensus #1 in the division for many years.

I still wouldn't make him top 5 or anything like that, but he would be higher than what he is.

I think if Vitali had beaten Lennox and then Wlad had beaten Vitali, he would probably be in top 5.

[soul_survivor]

8??????????? NO NO NO NO NO, I respect Manny, I respect Wlad, I have him as a top 15 guy, possibly but top 8? No. Just no.

Ali is the GOAT tho

[LacedUp]

I think if Vitali had beaten Lennox and then Wlad had beaten Vitali, he would probably be in top 5.

No he wouldn't.

And then it becomes a case of ifs and buts. I don't think one good win makes you a top 5 of all times. Look at Joe Frazier - he has the best win in all of the heavyweight division's history probably, yet most don't consider him a top 5 - despite him having a resume that quite literally craps all over Wlad's.

[PainfromUkraine]

No he wouldn't.

And then it becomes a case of ifs and buts. I don't think one good win makes you a top 5 of all times. Look at Joe Frazier - he has the best win in all of the heavyweight division's history probably, yet most don't consider him a top 5 - despite him having a resume that quite literally craps all over Wlad's.

Maybe, but signature wins aren't the only thing that is used for ranking these guys. Frazier got that one Ali win, yet he lost the next 2, and twice v Foreman. Sure, that win counts for a hell of a lot and at least his losses came against ATG. But I think he never really established himself as THE man. You do need that longevity too, and some things can substitute for others in an overall resume. I think if Frazier was champ for a longer period, he might have been seen as top 5.

[JDD1]

I have great respect for emmanuel steward. He has forgotten more about boxing than I will ever know. I strongly disagree with his opinion on wlad, despite the fact I respect it immensely.

[LacedUp]

Maybe, but signature wins aren't the only thing that is used for ranking these guys. Frazier got that one Ali win, yet he lost the next 2, and twice v Foreman. Sure, that win counts for a hell of a lot and at least his losses came against ATG. But I think he never really established himself as THE man. You do need that longevity too, and some things can substitute for others in an overall resume. I think if Frazier was champ for a longer period, he might have been seen as top 5.

Frazier was THE MAN for 5-6 years (since Ali wasn't able to fight). That's longer than Wlad has been "the man"! - and when they were both prime Frazier won. I don't think it's fair to dismiss Frazier's two losses to Ali as just losses. He was in the fights, and not the second one admittedly, they were great great fights. The third fight was fight of the century and he would have won had his corner let him stand up.

Frazier was getting on for the first Foreman fight and was done for the second fight. Not excuses, just facts.

He does have 4 losses, but they were to two top 5 ATGs. Wlad has 3 (KO) losses to people that were journeymen. It's not really comparable.

But Frazier was the man longer than Wlad has been the man. Some would say Wlad has only been the man since Vitali retired as he was always the #1 or the champ. Wlad shouldn't get fantasy points just because his brother is a fighter too.

Besides, Frazier beat more top 10 opponents, more ATGs and more HOFamers than Wlad has. He clearly has a better resume, but most don't consider him a top 5.