Who has a better resume, Sugar Ray Leonard or Floyd Mayweather?

[djtmal]

HAHAHAHA!!! SRL could NEVER IN HIS LIFE outbox the GREATEST PUREBOXER EVER.

Everyone Floyd has faced, has a height and reach advantage. We understand the misimformation on boxrec and tail of the tape that CLAIM Floyd is taller than everyone with longer arms. But its blatant absurdity. Floyd is half the size of everyone he has faced. And has short stubby arms in comparison.

In fact, Pac and JMM, are the ONLY opponents in recent times, who Floyd has towered over.

SRL is an outdated fighter. Its not fair to throw him in the ring with a guy from the future, who is WAAAY better, and grew up looking at all the flaws on SRL!

Lol...the jury is still out on weather Floyd is "waaaay better" than Sugar Ray, especially when last I checked Sugar Ray ranks far higher than Floyd on most all time great lists, and really, who did Floyd fight or beat that even supports that.

Man the best pureboxer Floyd faced in this era is Zab Judah, and nobody would ever mention Zab and Sugar Ray, Hearns, Marvelous, Duran, even Benitez, in the same sentence.

Dude, at lightweight, super lightweight, and junior welterweight, you can make a strong case that Pretty Boy Floyd is the greatest pureboxer ever. I will give you that. Him and Pernell Whitaker have to sort that out.

But at welterweight, a featherfisted/safetyfirst, pureboxer like Floyd "Money" Mayweather, who by your own admission is outsized on a regular basis, would be facing some offensive firepower from higher ranking all time greats at welterweight who could really throw down and would walk Floyd down. Guys like Sugar, they don't even exist in this era of welterweights, and the guys from this era that could have gave us some indication on how great Floyd really was @ welterweight, he didn't fight or there was some excuse. You know like a more prime Cotto, who was a bull, 2009 Pacquaio had put it all together, handspeed, power, southpaw and was stopping welterweights, a less shopworn Shane, hands of stone Margarito was a relentless pressure fighter, that long, lanky guy Paul Williams could really box and would have posed a stylistic nightmare for Floyd. Even Amir Khan, a fighter who won a public poll for a Floyd fight (Floyd fought Maidana, a tailor made fighter instead), Khan, chinny, but had speed, could really box, would have posed a stylistic challenge for Floyd. Some of those guys "Money" Mayweather waited out for financial reasons, but the fights were damn near on the brink of past due date, and some of those fights were just not made (no excuses please).

You talk about all the flaws of a Sugar Ray, but what you cats fail to realize is when you are fighting prime equal opposition and win, that is the ultimate measuring stick. Sugar Ray, outsmarted guys, outgutted guys. Look what he did to Floyd Sr., who was featherfisted at welterweight just like Floyd Jr., but had real good handspeed and defense, and a natural welterweight, bigger than Floyd Jr. I know we laugh at Floyd Sr. now, but Floyd Sr. was a real tough dude. Sugar Ray, methodically broke Floyd Sr. down, by opening up the holes in his defense with bodyshots, and next thing you know, got him out of there. Floyd, was used to hitting guys, and hot getting hit back, but what happens when a guy like Sugar Ray, is fast enough to counter him back. We never saw that, and Floyd made sure we didn't.

Man, if Shane, Corley, Maidana, Oscar, could stun Floyd with a shot, you think Sugar Ray, one of the all-time great finishers, really had a killer instinct couldn't do the same with the same regularity that he did with his pops and get him out of there? I say yes, and so do a lot of other cats.

[rorschach51]

Very little debate to be had on this one, Leonard easily.

I dislike Leonard about as much as I dislike Floyd, but there is no comparison to be made between the two's resumes.

[RL_GMA]

Lol...the jury is still out on weather Floyd is "waaaay better" than Sugar Ray, especially when last I checked Sugar Ray ranks far higher than Floyd on most all time great lists, and really, who did Floyd fight or beat that even supports that.

Man the best pureboxer Floyd faced in this era is Zab Judah, and nobody would ever mention Zab and Sugar Ray, Hearns, Marvelous, Duran, even Benitez, in the same sentence.

Dude, at lightweight, super lightweight, and junior welterweight, you can make a strong case that Pretty Boy Floyd is the greatest pureboxer ever. I will give you that. Him and Pernell Whitaker have to sort that out.

But at welterweight, a featherfisted/safetyfirst, pureboxer like Floyd "Money" Mayweather, who by your own admission is outsized on a regular basis, would be facing some offensive firepower from higher ranking all time greats at welterweight who could really throw down and would walk Floyd down. Guys like Sugar, they don't even exist in this era of welterweights, and the guys from this era that could have gave us some indication on how great Floyd really was @ welterweight, he didn't fight or there was some excuse. You know like a more prime Cotto, who was a bull, 2009 Pacquaio had put it all together, handspeed, power, southpaw and was stopping welterweights, a less shopworn Shane, hands of stone Margarito was a relentless pressure fighter, that long, lanky guy Paul Williams could really box and would have posed a stylistic nightmare for Floyd. Even Amir Khan, a fighter who won a public poll for a Floyd fight (Floyd fought Maidana, a tailor made fighter instead), Khan, chinny, but had speed, could really box, would have posed a stylistic challenge for Floyd. Some of those guys "Money" Mayweather waited out for financial reasons, but the fights were damn near on the brink of past due date, and some of those fights were just not made (no excuses please).

You talk about all the flaws of a Sugar Ray, but what you cats fail to realize is when you are fighting prime equal opposition and win, that is the ultimate measuring stick. Sugar Ray, outsmarted guys, outgutted guys. Look what he did to Floyd Sr., who was featherfisted at welterweight just like Floyd Jr., but had real good handspeed and defense, and a natural welterweight, bigger than Floyd Jr. I know we laugh at Floyd Sr. now, but Floyd Sr. was a real tough dude. Sugar Ray, methodically broke Floyd Sr. down, by opening up the holes in his defense with bodyshots, and next thing you know, got him out of there. Floyd, was used to hitting guys, and hot getting hit back, but what happens when a guy like Sugar Ray, is fast enough to counter him back. We never saw that, and Floyd made sure we didn't.

Man, if Shane, Corley, Maidana, Oscar, could stun Floyd with a shot, you think Sugar Ray, one of the all-time great finishers, really had a killer instinct couldn't do the same with the same regularity that he did with his pops and get him out of there? I say yes, and so do a lot of other cats.

Exactly....

[Johnwoo8686]

Again,Hoya never beat a top level opponent..I don't count Vargas as a top guy imo..So i feel it's a reach to say he beats Duran a relentless power puncher..But we all see what we see..

De La Hoya did beat Trinidad in my eyes and he did beat Chavez and Whitaker although they were past it. Duran was a beast but he had issues with bigger guys who were also quick. His best win is by far the first fight with Leonard. Overall I'd still say Oscar was more naturally gifted than Duran. I'd also say Pacquiao is more naturally gifted than Duran as well. Go watch the fight between Duran and Ken Buchanan and tell me a prime Oscar couldn't the same or worse.

[Johnwoo8686]

Lol...the jury is still out on weather Floyd is "waaaay better" than Sugar Ray, especially when last I checked Sugar Ray ranks far higher than Floyd on most all time great lists, and really, who did Floyd fight or beat that even supports that.

Man the best pureboxer Floyd faced in this era is Zab Judah, and nobody would ever mention Zab and Sugar Ray, Hearns, Marvelous, Duran, even Benitez, in the same sentence.

Dude, at lightweight, super lightweight, and junior welterweight, you can make a strong case that Pretty Boy Floyd is the greatest pureboxer ever. I will give you that. Him and Pernell Whitaker have to sort that out.

But at welterweight, a featherfisted/safetyfirst, pureboxer like Floyd "Money" Mayweather, who by your own admission is outsized on a regular basis, would be facing some offensive firepower from higher ranking all time greats at welterweight who could really throw down and would walk Floyd down. Guys like Sugar, they don't even exist in this era of welterweights, and the guys from this era that could have gave us some indication on how great Floyd really was @ welterweight, he didn't fight or there was some excuse. You know like a more prime Cotto, who was a bull, 2009 Pacquaio had put it all together, handspeed, power, southpaw and was stopping welterweights, a less shopworn Shane, hands of stone Margarito was a relentless pressure fighter, that long, lanky guy Paul Williams could really box and would have posed a stylistic nightmare for Floyd. Even Amir Khan, a fighter who won a public poll for a Floyd fight (Floyd fought Maidana, a tailor made fighter instead), Khan, chinny, but had speed, could really box, would have posed a stylistic challenge for Floyd. Some of those guys "Money" Mayweather waited out for financial reasons, but the fights were damn near on the brink of past due date, and some of those fights were just not made (no excuses please).

You talk about all the flaws of a Sugar Ray, but what you cats fail to realize is when you are fighting prime equal opposition and win, that is the ultimate measuring stick. Sugar Ray, outsmarted guys, outgutted guys. Look what he did to Floyd Sr., who was featherfisted at welterweight just like Floyd Jr., but had real good handspeed and defense, and a natural welterweight, bigger than Floyd Jr. I know we laugh at Floyd Sr. now, but Floyd Sr. was a real tough dude. Sugar Ray, methodically broke Floyd Sr. down, by opening up the holes in his defense with bodyshots, and next thing you know, got him out of there. Floyd, was used to hitting guys, and hot getting hit back, but what happens when a guy like Sugar Ray, is fast enough to counter him back. We never saw that, and Floyd made sure we didn't.

Man, if Shane, Corley, Maidana, Oscar, could stun Floyd with a shot, you think Sugar Ray, one of the all-time great finishers, really had a killer instinct couldn't do the same with the same regularity that he did with his pops and get him out of there? I say yes, and so do a lot of other cats.

First of all there aren't too many all time great lists right now that have Sugar Ray "way ahead of " Floyd as you say. In fact there are some all time great lists that have Floyd ahead of Sugar Ray. Boxrec's list right now is an example. They have Floyd ahead of Leonard.

Remember, Floyd started at 130 pounds while Ray started at 147 pounds so a hypothetical head to head match up is not the best way to decide who was greater. Looking at who was better pound for pound boxer is a better way to measure the two against one another. Floyd was able to remain undefeated up until his fifth weight class while Leonard could not even stay undefeated even in his first weight class. Leonard suffered his first loss to a guy who's best weight class was 135 pounds.

Floyd beat more champions than Leonard, won more total fights, was never clearly knocked down whereas Leonard was, and was the unified champion in two weight divisions at the same time when he retired. He also had greater longevity. And you can't really compare Floyd to his dad, even Leonard stated himself that Jr' is a much better fighter than Sr. was.

[IronDanHamza]

I know what you mean,but when i say top fighters i mean really special fighters..He beat a faded Chavez which was the only special fighter on his resume..Vargas does not fall into this category..Longtime Iron hope all is well..

Oh in that case then I can agree.

I'm good thanks Rome same back to you.

Where you been hiding?

[Rome-By-Ko]

Oh in that case then I can agree.

I'm good thanks Rome same back to you.

Where you been hiding?

Took a lil break from the craziness that is bscene lol..I'm back tho and just in time for some great boxing..This early yr looks great right now..Starting rhis week..

[Rome-By-Ko]

De La Hoya did beat Trinidad in my eyes and he did beat Chavez and Whitaker although they were past it. Duran was a beast but he had issues with bigger guys who were also quick. His best win is by far the first fight with Leonard. Overall I'd still say Oscar was more naturally gifted than Duran. I'd also say Pacquiao is more naturally gifted than Duran as well. Go watch the fight between Duran and Ken Buchanan and tell me a prime Oscar couldn't the same or worse.

I've always respected Hoya,but dude nah i could not see Hoya in anyway beating Duran..We see what we see tho..Good stuff tho..

[djtmal]

First of all there aren't too many all time great lists right now that have Sugar Ray "way ahead of " Floyd as you say. In fact there are some all time great lists that have Floyd ahead of Sugar Ray. Boxrec's list right now is an example. They have Floyd ahead of Leonard.

Remember, Floyd started at 130 pounds while Ray started at 147 pounds so a hypothetical head to head match up is not the best way to decide who was greater. Looking at who was better pound for pound boxer is a better way to measure the two against one another. Floyd was able to remain undefeated up until his fifth weight class while Leonard could not even stay undefeated even in his first weight class. Leonard suffered his first loss to a guy who's best weight class was 135 pounds.

Floyd beat more champions than Leonard, won more total fights, was never clearly knocked down whereas Leonard was, and was the unified champion in two weight divisions at the same time when he retired. He also had greater longevity. And you can't really compare Floyd to his dad, even Leonard stated himself that Jr' is a much better fighter than Sr. was.

Dude, I did my homework and have watched all of the significant fights since the 70's.

Judging p4p overall all-time, that's irregardless of weight division, so that means for slow folks, Robinson, a multi-division champ, can be #1, Ali, a heavyweight, can be #2.

Sooooooo, Floyd starting at 130, and Sugar, starting at 147 has no relevance when it comes to resumes and atg rankings, and that is what the original topic is about. Furthermore, Sugar could have been knocked down more than Floyd, have more losses than Floyd, all irrelevant. If that is the case, there are cats that went 87-0, 140-0. So Floyd, going 49-0, that is apples and oranges.

Bottom line, its about, who you beat, and when you beat them, whether you are a featherweight, or a heavyweight. That's it and that's all. You can't spin s**t to give Floyd style points.

You talking about atg lists irregardless of weight division?, Sugar is consistently higher than Floyd, and welterweight lists, where both Floyd and Sugar campaigned, have Sugar comfortably ahead of Floyd.
One list you cite that has Floyd ahead don't mean much, and this is what cats like you either don't get, just don't want to acknowledge, or just try to spin to Floyd's advantage, but the hard truth is, Floyd can beat 1000 beltholders, campaign in 20 divisions, but Sugar Ray, having tko'd a prime Thomas Hearns, another high rank atg welterweight, trumps all of that. Not only that, but Thomas Hearns and Sugar was a true 50/50 fight, and Hearns was poleaxing welterweights. Hearns, was A REAL THREAT. We asked Floyd to fight Pacquaio when he was a true threat in 2009, no fight.

And that's just one guy for Sugar. Hagler, another high rank atg and some have #1 p4p 160 atg, Sugar Ray, was off over 3 years, and a huge underdog there and got a split decision on a still dangerous Hagler even though he been in some wars with Hearns and Mugabi. You peel off the layers of Floyd's welterweight/jmw victories and it doesn't even come close.

If you, and Floyd boys, want to lay your hat on, Floyd Mayweather, beating more champs than Sugar Ray, cool, but the consensus true measure is, who you beat, and when you beat them that puts one guy ahead of the other. Floyd boys, you know Floyd falls short, so just damn acknowledge it. It will be ok jeez.

[Johnwoo8686]

Dude, I did my homework and have watched all of the significant fights since the 70's.

Judging p4p overall all-time, that's irregardless of weight division, so that means for slow folks, Robinson, a multi-division champ, can be #1, Ali, a heavyweight, can be #2.

Sooooooo, Floyd starting at 130, and Sugar, starting at 147 has no relevance when it comes to resumes and atg rankings, and that is what the original topic is about. Furthermore, Sugar could have been knocked down more than Floyd, have more losses than Floyd, all irrelevant. If that is the case, there are cats that went 87-0, 140-0. So Floyd, going 49-0, that is apples and oranges.

Bottom line, its about, who you beat, and when you beat them, whether you are a featherweight, or a heavyweight. That's it and that's all. You can't spin s**t to give Floyd style points.

You talking about atg lists irregardless of weight division?, Sugar is consistently higher than Floyd, and welterweight lists, where both Floyd and Sugar campaigned, have Sugar comfortably ahead of Floyd.
One list you cite that has Floyd ahead don't mean much, and this is what cats like you either don't get, just don't want to acknowledge, or just try to spin to Floyd's advantage, but the hard truth is, Floyd can beat 1000 beltholders, campaign in 20 divisions, but Sugar Ray, having tko'd a prime Thomas Hearns, another high rank atg welterweight, trumps all of that. Not only that, but Thomas Hearns and Sugar was a true 50/50 fight, and Hearns was poleaxing welterweights. Hearns, was A REAL THREAT. We asked Floyd to fight Pacquaio when he was a true threat in 2009, no fight.

And that's just one guy for Sugar. Hagler, another high rank atg and some have #1 p4p 160 atg, Sugar Ray, was off over 3 years, and a huge underdog there and got a split decision on a still dangerous Hagler even though he been in some wars with Hearns and Mugabi. You peel off the layers of Floyd's welterweight/jmw victories and it doesn't even come close.

If you, and Floyd boys, want to lay your hat on, Floyd Mayweather, beating more champs than Sugar Ray, cool, but the consensus true measure is, who you beat, and when you beat them that puts one guy ahead of the other. Floyd boys, you know Floyd falls short, so just damn acknowledge it. It will be ok jeez.

You point out lists that have Sugar Ray Leonard ahead of Floyd but don't cite any sources. At least I cited a source that had Floyd ahead of Ray. And we aren't talking about the guys who went went 87-0 in this thread, we are directly comparing Floyd and Ray so mentioning Ray Robinson etc is irrelevant to this thread because we are only talking about these two guys.

And it's difficult to compare eras because Leonard fought in the 15 round era. If there were 12 rounds back then Leonard would have lost to Hearns the first time around and he really lost the rematch. And as for Floyd fighting past their prime legends, the same could be said for Leonard's win over Hagler, Hagler was past it and Leonard still only got a split decision in a fight many thought he lost.

You're right about one thing, it is comparing apples and oranges. Floyd has the better win streak, better longevity and more title fight wins while Leonard might have the better names on his resume. It's all about what you prefer.
But if we are talking about pound for pound, I think the guy who was able to undefeated in 5 weight classes is better than the guy who could not go undefeated in his first weight class.