Why Ellerbee Was Right On Wilder

[rickJen]

Actually, what Wilder made for Breazeale was readily available then. You had some reports saying only 10 million, some saying 18 million. But most folks reported him making the same money DAZN offered. Between what Showtime paid and what Haymon put in, Wilder made 20 million, as was reported by the Forbes article in the OP. More documentation to that effect follows:
.....

You didn't answer my question.
Why would Showtime pay Wilder $20 million for a fight
that is essentially equivalent to a Charlo-Adams fight?

[Ray*]

You didn't answer my question.
Why would Showtime pay Wilder $20 million for a fight
that is essentially equivalent to a Charlo-Adams fight?

Why would they pay for Wilder/Breazeale and not Wilder/Ortiz 2? That’s the real question here.

[koolkc107]

He got 20 million for Breazeale.

He got 20 million for Ortiz 2.

I don't think those two facts are much in dispute.

Whether the ppv did well is actually a separate issue since his money was/is guaranteed. I think it's clear the platforms airing Wilder's fights are fine with what is happening right now and are in for the duration.

There are examples of this kind of thing all the time. Plenty of fights have lost money because promotional outfits have swallowed short term losses in exchange for long term gains.

DAZN is doing it right now with Canelo.
ESPN is doing it right now with Fury.

Funny, but I don't recall many of you in these forums questioning what those men "reportedly" made or wondering much about the successful viewership on those platforms each of those fights.

Interesting...

[Scipio2009]

They didn't know Joshua it would lose so it does not matter. Nobody thought Ruiz would win and him losing to Joshua was a forgone conclusion to everybody including Haymon and Co.

They wouldn't let Wilder fight on rival platform. That's all there's to it. That was the only reason Wilder didn't sign.

No he made 40 million for Breazeale and Ortiz so unless he's making 60 million for his next fight Wilder made a bad business and likely will never have the opportunity to make that much money ever again.

It's still interesting that DAZN still doesn't have a formal contract with Anthony Joshua, tbh.

And, as the offer was presented to the public, there doesn't seem to be anything there that would've prevented a Saudi Arabia situation for Wilder-Joshua either (in the sense that Wilder gets his fronted salary, Hearn finds some money mark willing to pay double what the fight could've earned anywhere, and Hearn keeps that extra money for himself).

We'll get a gauge of what the numbers look like soon, but the PPV audience is finally taking note of Deontay Wilder, especially in these last 4 fights (the Ortiz comeback, the "leave Fury for dead" fight, the Breazeale obliteration, and the "one punch man" obliteration of Ortiz in the rematch).

He does his job in the Fury rematch, he's basically on the money.

A million homes at $75, leaves a pay pot of $35m-$40m, plus the live event money, plus the UK TV money, plus the rest of the international TV money.

Wilder-TBA being worth $50m+ changes the conversation in a major way; largely due to Wilder and his camp passing on the $100m for three fights, likely making $50m-$60m for the three fights instead (Breazeale, Ortiz 2, Fury 2), but drastically raising the value of his events going beyond those fights.

And that is even more significant going forward due to Joshua not being under contract; if Joshua's management can see that there are X amount of dollars available for the fight on PPV, and DAZN is only willing to front Y dollars, there's no incentive for them to keep keeping money out of Joshua's pocket, regardless of what Hearn's side deal gets him.

[Scipio2009]

If he'd accepted the offer and AJ had then lost, Wilder would have earned twice as much for fighting Breazeale on DAZN then he ended up getting for the same fight on Showtime, and then been free to fight whoever he wanted, wherever he wanted, after that.

So, $100m turns to $20m, Wilder jeopardizes his relationship with Showtime, DAZN gooses one US event to market without Canelo, and they get to walk away free without having to deliver Joshua (which likely ends up being something they couldn't deliver to begin with)

Short money over long

[Scipio2009]

a contract is legally binding. this is not some haymon behind the scenes here is some money deal. joshua is making more money after losing to ruiz so your whole point doesn't make any sense. the fights would still happen no matter what. just like the stupid ortiz rematch happened when no one wanted it. promises were made and big losses were had to satisfy the fighters. there is no need for hypotheticals. the money was there and he didn't go for it out of loyalty. he even said this. he also said he's gambling on himself. well given his purses his gamble didn't pan out. wilder will not make 60 million in his next fight.

Joshua is making more money on the rematch because Mohammed bin Salman was willing to spend something approaching $40m to host the fight (I don't know the gate numbers offhand, but wouldn't shock me if that was 5 or 6 times what the fight drew at MSG).

Honesty is a beautiful thing.

Making $60m in the third fight (with the Ortiz numbers still coming in, I doubt he's earned $40m on those two fights anyway) isn't the point.

If the Fury rematch does what folks are starting to hype it to do (Arum, after doing jack **** to elevate Fury, somehow sees the event going from the assumed 350k that the first fight did, to 2 million, lol), Wilder may end up $30m short of the DAZN offer, but he'd also end up as a now established PPV attraction, 11 title defenses into his run, with a Joshua series of fights (2-3 fights) (assuming he beats Ruiz in the rematch) still to play out.

Timing is whatever, but if the Joshua series can't start immediately (all things being sane, if Joshua wins the rematch, Pulev would fight Joshua in March/April 2020 for the IBF, face Usyk summer 2020, and eye the full unification to close out 2020), you still have a really good fight in Wilder-Kownacki from Barclays Center to go with for Summer 2020, before closing the year with Dillian Shyte if he gets cleared.

14 title defenses in, 5 years+ as champion, and the stories for the PPV audience will write themselves if whomever has the other belts keeps not wanting to fight Wilder

[kafkod]

So, $100m turns to $20m, Wilder jeopardizes his relationship with Showtime, DAZN gooses one US event to market without Canelo, and they get to walk away free without having to deliver Joshua (which likely ends up being something they couldn't deliver to begin with)

Short money over long

Excuses, excuses, excuses ...

The fact is that Wilder was screaming and crying all over the place about wanting to unify with AJ. And when he was offered the chance to do it for fantastic money .. he turned it down.

[kafkod]

Hearns shoulda just offered that one fight vs Joshua and not tried to tie him down with extra fights. Imo

Hearns did offer Wilders one fight with Joshuas and Wilders said no.

[Raggamuffin]

The DAZN deal Wilder turned down was actually one of two options: 3 fights for 100 million or 4 fights for 120 million.

Two of the fights were supposed to be versus AJ for 40 million dollars each. The 3 fight deal included another 20 million for a Breazeale fight, while the 4 fight deal included the Breazeale fight and another 20 million dollar fight against an opponent of Wilder's choosing.

Note that DAZN didn't have a contract with AJ's signature on it and that AJ isn't signed to DAZN. AJ is signed to Matchroom and SkySports, and the contract Wilder was to sign didn't mention SkySports or any other revenue streams.

So let's look at what happened...

Joshua got knocked out. Does anyone think Wilder would have earned that first 40 million by now? Or, is it more likely he'd be either without a fight (in the case of the three fight deal) or fighting the other optional 20 million dollar fight in the 4 fight deal?

Well, Deontay made 20 million vs Breazeale anyway. And, he just made another 20 million against Ortiz.

It's 20 million more in his pocket in 2019 than if he'd signed the 3 fight deal and the same money if he'd signed the 4 fight deal since DAZN likely has him wait for the Ruiz-AJ rematch.

I guess we will know if he lost money if he fails to make 40 million each of his next two fights.

Or, if Ruiz wins the rematch, I am not sure that 40 million for two fights would still be on the table. But for our purposes here, let's call that irrelevant for 2019 since we can agree no 40 million would be made this year.

So, right now, Wilder is in better position than he would have been if he had signed.

He has made the same money or more.

And he did it while remaining a free agent.

Below is the article verifying what Wilder has made his last 2 fights.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshkat.../#5ece76d31e60

They burned the bridges with Wilder so he went out and did it on his own. Those who say that Wilder ducked Joshua are Joshua Homers because no boxing fan with common sense would believe such utter garbage, lmao.

[Raggamuffin]

Just keep on fighting Wilder. The boxing public loves you. You don't have to sell as long as everyone sees you. Just fight the fights that matter. Don't argue about where fights are, who is the draw etc etc. Just keep fighting... You've earned your respect with everyone except Joshua fans. Now they've resorted to backing Whyte, lmao!!!