Valuev vs Louis 1942

[just the facts]

The disparity in size can’t overcome the disparity in talent. Louis by mid round stoppage in a one sided fight.

[OctoberRed]

The disparity in size can’t overcome the disparity in talent. Louis by mid round stoppage in a one sided fight.

^^^^^^^ This

[Anthony342]

^^^^^^^ This

Yep. That's why Royce Gracie won all those early UFC tournaments over some bigger opponents. Because his skill and technique was better. Same thing in boxing. If technical skills are equal and size is greater, then the advantage goes to the one with the bigger size. Even in scripted pro wrestling matches back in the day they used to say that "a good big man will usually beat a good small man."

[OctoberRed]

Yep. That's why Royce Gracie won all those early UFC tournaments over some bigger opponents. Because his skill and technique was better. Same thing in boxing. If technical skills are equal and size is greater, then the advantage goes to the one with the bigger size. Even in scripted pro wrestling matches back in the day they used to say that "a good big man will usually beat a good small man."

Back then nobody had any idea who to fight on the ground. Once they started training for everything Gracie was screwed

[Dempsey-Louis]

Isn't Gracie the guy who use to choke people? Never could bring myself to get excited about a fight where people choke each other. I watched the guy once and kept thinking, what next eye gouging and ear pulling? It soured me on the game and I never went back. For me choking just doesn't make an interesting fight.

[Anthony342]

Back then nobody had any idea who to fight on the ground. Once they started training for everything Gracie was screwed

Yep, once fighters learned how to defend takedowns, Gracie would pull guard and get submissions that way. When opponents learned to avoid or pass the guard, he was pretty much done, until his muay thai skills improved in his older years. He would then pull an Antonio Inoki and drop down to leg kick opponents, unless he could get them in the thai clinch or land some boxing punches. But yes, it still became much harder for the Gracies because many of their weapons were taken away, plus they were much older by then.

[Anthony342]

Isn't Gracie the guy who use to choke people? Never could bring myself to get excited about a fight where people choke each other. I watched the guy once and kept thinking, what next eye gouging and ear pulling? It soured me on the game and I never went back. For me choking just doesn't make an interesting fight.

Choking yes, but eye gouging and ear pulling were never legal. It's actually a lot safer though, because once a guy is in a choke hold, it only takes roughly 5 to 10 seconds for him to lose consciousness, unless he submits first. So fighters with submission skills can often win without injuring an opponent much or even at all, since they sometimes never have to land any hard strikes or even throw any at all if they can score a quick takedown.

But it's fine man, different tastes. Interesting you mention the ear though, because a Japanese fighter named Sakuraba had to have his ear reattached because he was also involved in scripted pro wrestling matches in Japan and in UFC 1 a Dutch fighter named Gordeau bit Royce Gracie's ear, leading Royce to hold onto his rear choke a little longer to teach the guy a lesson. He also held onto it because the refs stunk in his first two fights, not seeing the opponents tap out right away, so he wanted to make sure they knew before he let go of his opponent the third time around. They got better refs from then on luckily.

[OctoberRed]

Yep, once fighters learned how to defend takedowns, Gracie would pull guard and get submissions that way. When opponents learned to avoid or pass the guard, he was pretty much done, until his muay thai skills improved in his older years. He would then pull an Antonio Inoki and drop down to leg kick opponents, unless he could get them in the thai clinch or land some boxing punches. But yes, it still became much harder for the Gracies because many of their weapons were taken away, plus they were much older by then.

That outfit used to help him, until people began to grab it for advantages

[Anthony342]

That outfit used to help him, until people began to grab it for advantages

Oh, the gi? Yeah, I didn't even mention that. He stopped using it after the first Sakuraba fight, when Kazushi grabbed at it like crazy, even trying to pull his pants down. Sakuraba was entertaining and knew how to work a crowd from his days as a pro wrestler. He even came out with a mask on haha.

[The Old LefHook]

Choking yes, but eye gouging and ear pulling were never legal. It's actually a lot safer though, because once a guy is in a choke hold, it only takes roughly 5 to 10 seconds for him to lose consciousness, unless he submits first. So fighters with submission skills can often win without injuring an opponent much or even at all, since they sometimes never have to land any hard strikes or even throw any at all if they can score a quick takedown.

But it's fine man, different tastes. Interesting you mention the ear though, because a Japanese fighter named Sakuraba had to have his ear reattached because he was also involved in scripted pro wrestling matches in Japan and in UFC 1 a Dutch fighter named Gordeau bit Royce Gracie's ear, leading Royce to hold onto his rear choke a little longer to teach the guy a lesson. He also held onto it because the refs stunk in his first two fights, not seeing the opponents tap out right away, so he wanted to make sure they knew before he let go of his opponent the third time around. They got better refs from then on luckily.

The fellow with the milking muscle I told you about who didn't get it from jack 'ner used to go for the death grip stranglehold in fights. He would take punishment to get the death grip, because when he did it was over. He'd close on the windpipe like a choked pecker, and bullies would sag helpless in one big mitt.

I saw a training video (just as a for instance) of our own Juggy punching the heavy bag. Johnson would have reached in and seized our own Juggy by the windpipe and choked him out with a smile as our own Juggy punched for all he was worth. Finally, our own Juggy would sag with supplication, begging without a voice and with great, bugged eyes to be released. Nothing to be ashamed of. I have seen Johnson walk through gents who could punch even harder.