Jack Dempsey vs Michael Spinks

[billeau2]

No question that Spinks was one of the greatest light heavyweights ever.

But so was Ezzard Charles. And he lost to the relatively crude Marciano at heavyweight .

Those were two very tough fights... they went hammer and tongs!

[Joe Beamish]

I can't see Dempsey getting in the ring with Spinks, or any other black man.

Because he never did. Who did Dempsey beat again? Anybody really good?

Nope. The best guy he fought, he lost to twice. I don't get all the Dempsey hype. He was a phenomenon in his day, but...who'd he beat? At least Spinks beat an aged Holmes, sort of. (And lots of good LHW wins.)

I like how people diss Marciano and point out that some of the elders at that time in boxing and journalism thought he didn't measure up to yesterdays' heroes like Dempsey, but....at least he fought some bad dudes and whipped them in the ring, many of them extremely skilled and even....gasp!...black men.

Dempsey couldn't be bothered.

[QueensburyRules]

I can't see Dempsey getting in the ring with Spinks, or any other black man.

Because he never did. Who did Dempsey beat again? Anybody really good?

Nope. The best guy he fought, he lost to twice. I don't get all the Dempsey hype. He was a phenomenon in his day, but...who'd he beat? At least Spinks beat an aged Holmes, sort of. (And lots of good LHW wins.)

I like how people diss Marciano and point out that some of the elders at that time in boxing and journalism thought he didn't measure up to yesterdays' heroes like Dempsey, but....at least he fought some bad dudes and whipped them in the ring, many of them extremely skilled and even....gasp!...black men.

Dempsey couldn't be bothered.

- -sorry to see you spreading this long discredited racial view.

And it's always been a bone of contention that he didn't win the Tunney rematch when he put Tunney down for the Ten count.

[The Old LefHook]

Dempsey was pure fighter with some pretty good boxing added on. I never felt his punches, but I have talked to a man who did feel them, and I even once interviewed him (which I still have on tape somewhere). Connie Will(s) had been a middleweight contender and a student of Mike and Tommy Gibbons at their boxing school by way of Minnesota. He was valued as a sparring partner for Jack who was shortly going up against the great but diminutive Carpentier.

Connie said your shoulders and arms hurt like hell the morning after or the night of a sparring session. Just about any place Dempsey hit you it hurt; it shook up your insides. It seems that Connie and the whole camp, perhaps, were a bit mesmerized and in awe of Jack who was already a legend of course in the Golden age of Ruth, Jones, Grange et al.

Personally, I have no trouble seeing how underrated Dempsey is. His punching technique was so pure that he lobs out what looks like a semi-lazy feeler of a lefhook, and it puts people down. It did not have the torque or the acceleration of a Tyson lefhook, for instance, but the same brutal, freakish power is there contained. It has to come from somewhere.

I keep trying to tell people, some have even understood. Most fighters just punch. The science of punching turned art was Jack's pure domain, lads.

Newtimers wonder: why do they think Dempsey was so great?

Because they were there, lad. Why do you think Duran was so great, junior?

You really only have to remember and recognize how we adored the savage in Duran, how we loved him actually for his savagery, to know why Dempsey is remembered the way he is. You didn't think Buster Douglas was going to be more remembered than Mike Tyson, did you, junior, just because he was the one who got to knock him off; or Tarver be more well remembered than than Roy just because it was his destiny to end Roy's reign of dominance? Nah.

Dempsey was knocking muggers cold in pairs on the streets of New York into his sixties.

[Joe Beamish]

Yeah, I get that Dempsey could punch, and he even wrote a book about it. That's great.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Spinks is underrated by many. There are fans who get a little carried away, but a lot of people don't appreciate Spinks' ability in the ring. I think for such a short career he showed off a lot of well-developed skill and depth. His achievements are really good, too.


That being said who did he beat?

Mustaffa was finished (and terribly weight-drained)

Qawi, a favorite of mine, was undersized (and still dropped him).

Holmes was done (even if you gave Spinks the first fight, he clearly lost the rematch: impressive performances both; but not great wins, if even wins at all).

Cooney had less business getting into the ring w/ Spinks than Spinks had w/ Tyson. But at least the coke head Cooney didn't punk out like Spinks.

Spinks wasn't a great mover. His awkwardness is only going to work for so long.

Sure, Dempsey is going to get hurt. He's gonna get frustrated. But then he's gonna win. The combinations Dempsey threw were gorgeous and devastating. (It was getting into place against what he perceived easy targets that he shows his crudeness). Spinks never had to contend w/ anything on that level until he ran into Tyson. While old and inflated, he chose to give up instead of stand his mud. If there's any trace of weakness in man, Jack finds it.

I know that he's called old when he ran into Tunney. But it really looks like he just can't get Gene where he wants him, and Gene has the power to correct him when he gets close. Tunney was a special type of fighter; Spinks was bigger and more refined, but he was no Gene Tunney.

[The Old LefHook]

Yeah, I get that Dempsey could punch, and he even wrote a book about it. That's great.

I want your predictions on the match, not your sociological speculations. Who cares if you think he would never get in the ring with Spinks? You were asked what would happen if he did, by Sneezy.

I suppose you think Curly beats Jack, eh?

[Rusty Tromboni]

I can't see Dempsey getting in the ring with Spinks, or any other black man.

Because he never did. Who did Dempsey beat again? Anybody really good?

Nope. The best guy he fought, he lost to twice. I don't get all the Dempsey hype. He was a phenomenon in his day, but...who'd he beat? At least Spinks beat an aged Holmes, sort of. (And lots of good LHW wins.)

I like how people diss Marciano and point out that some of the elders at that time in boxing and journalism thought he didn't measure up to yesterdays' heroes like Dempsey, but....at least he fought some bad dudes and whipped them in the ring, many of them extremely skilled and even....gasp!...black men.

Dempsey couldn't be bothered.

Spinks' record isn't any better. What was his best win? When did he ever enter the ring w/ anyone as good as Tunney? When did he ever hurt anyone like Dempsey did? What Black man before the rise of Ali, other than Joe Louis and maybe Sonny Liston, can even be considered a live opponent against Dempsey?

[QueensburyRules]

Spinks is underrated by many. There are fans who get a little carried away, but a lot of people don't appreciate Spinks' ability in the ring. I think for such a short career he showed off a lot of well-developed skill and depth. His achievements are really good, too.


That being said who did he beat?

Mustaffa was finished (and terribly weight-drained)

Qawi, a favorite of mine, was undersized (and still dropped him).

Holmes was done (even if you gave Spinks the first fight, he clearly lost the rematch: impressive performances both; but not great wins, if even wins at all).

Cooney had less business getting into the ring w/ Spinks than Spinks had w/ Tyson. But at least the coke head Cooney didn't punk out like Spinks.

Spinks wasn't a great mover. His awkwardness is only going to work for so long.

Sure, Dempsey is going to get hurt. He's gonna get frustrated. But then he's gonna win. The combinations Dempsey threw were gorgeous and devastating. (It was getting into place against what he perceived easy targets that he shows his crudeness). Spinks never had to contend w/ anything on that level until he ran into Tyson. While old and inflated, he chose to give up instead of stand his mud. If there's any trace of weakness in man, Jack finds it.

- -Mo' Rusty porkies from you again.

Mustaffa made 175 and KOed a top 10 Mwale and at 176 when he whooped Ricky Parkey who went on to win and defend his cruiser title.

Yeah, Qawi short...Duhs for you, and Mike Katz say the KD was was questionable because Spinks had a well known bad knee that was starting to collapse on him before qawi landed a punch. Spinks was having to move to maintain his punching distance that all agree was a masterclass. Qawi put Field in the hospital on death's doorstep for comparison.

And saying Spinks quit against Tyson further strains any grade school expertise you claim. Spinks knee could never hold off a prime Tyson in full destructive pomp.

He landed a few jinx rights to no avail to be splattered in a knockout for the ages.

Still ain't told nobody where you're hiding all you Tunney and Greb video. Yeah, in a strongbox buried deep in your underground bunker in the middle of the Land of La La.

[travestyny]

What Black man before the rise of Ali, other than Joe Louis and maybe Sonny Liston, can even be considered a live opponent against Dempsey?

You do realize that the last time Dempsey fought a black man, he had 3 of his ribs broken and got a draw that he thought he deserved to lose, right?

And that wasn't even Langford, Wills, Jeanette, Johnson, McVey.