Being unbeaten, doesn't mean you are the best

[soul_survivor]

Marciano clearly isn't the best hw ever but he is an ATG. Its not his fault he fought in a division which lacked other greats or had guys who moved up from lhw and we're past their best hy the time rocky fought them.

Maybe if he had fought on a few years and fought the rising crop, patt, liston, ingemar then who knows, maybe his position would be higher.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Does anyone agree that Marciano was only unbeaten because he was lucky?
He was lucky for these reasons;
1. He got to his title shot by beating mostly unknowns. Guys with as many as 57 losses!
2. He got a decision over Roland LaStarza that was "universally criticised" as being unfair. The fact that Marciano's manager was the matchmaker for Madison square garden, was the major reason as to why Rocky was gifted it.
3. He also got a decision over Ted Lowry which even Ring magazine accepts was a robbery.
4. He fought a 37 old for the title, who already had 16 losses. # Side note, a man at 37 in those days was a lot more worn out than today's equivalent, having a much tougher life, and many more gruelling fights, plus they were 15 rounders back then, as some younger readers might not be aware.
5. His title defences were against either old men (some sources list Moore as 45) or men who had moved up in weight, or both. Don C#ckell had been stopped by former middleweight Randy Turpin, and looked like the worst title challenger in history...although he did have guts.
6. Of his 6 defences, 3 were against guys he had already beaten and if we include his title win, his 7 opponents had 87 losses between them, often inflicted by light heavies and even middles.
7. His nose injury suffered in the Charles bout was easily bad enough for the fight to be stopped, and if the injury was on Charles, I think it is safe to say that the fight would have been stopped.
8. He didn't want anything to do with Liston, and was challenged by Patterson, who was young, unlike all the men he had been beating, and had been looking awesome, which was later backed up by his performance against Moore, in comparison to Rocky's. He therefore retired younger than his title challengers.
Any decent prospect could beat 49-0, if they were matched right, and if that was the only goal. Hell, line me up 50 90 year olds, and hopefully, I would beat it!
Hope you enjoyed the article. I am not looking to diss anyone, nor am I looking for arguments, just want to see what others think.

This is false. Delete your account immediately.

[chaconfan]

This is false. Delete your account immediately.

Yes boss right away. How dare I ask questions about a record that people think is awesome, but when looked at is terrible? Not that I care, but for the record, are you actually saying that ALL of it is false?

[Canelo and GGG]

Marciano clearly isn't the best hw ever but he is an ATG. Its not his fault he fought in a division which lacked other greats or had guys who moved up from lhw and we're past their best hy the time rocky fought them.

Maybe if he had fought on a few years and fought the rising crop, patt, liston, ingemar then who knows, maybe his position would be higher.

Thats the truth

[chaconfan]

Marciano clearly isn't the best hw ever but he is an ATG. Its not his fault he fought in a division which lacked other greats or had guys who moved up from lhw and we're past their best hy the time rocky fought them.

Maybe if he had fought on a few years and fought the rising crop, patt, liston, ingemar then who knows, maybe his position would be higher.

I never suggested that it was his fault, but it is the truth.
Let us be balanced here, it could also have been lower.

[chaconfan]

Thats the truth

It is also the truth that his record is not as impressive as it appears, and also just as likely that if he didn't retire, he would have lost, once his luck ran out.
If the greatest ever (Ray Robinson) eventually lost, then a guy who mostly got by on fitness and will power definitely would. Especially one who could be dropped and outboxed by an old guy with 16 losses, and dropped by a 45 year old light heavy.

[soul_survivor]

It is also the truth that his record is not as impressive as it appears, and also just as likely that if he didn't retire, he would have lost, once his luck ran out.
If the greatest ever (Ray Robinson) eventually lost, then a guy who mostly got by on fitness and will power definitely would. Especially one who could be dropped and outboxed by an old guy with 16 losses, and dropped by a 45 year old light heavy.

you cant define so much of your opinion on what might have happened

[chaconfan]

you cant define so much of your opinion on what might have happened

Firstly my opinion can be based on whatever I decide.
Secondly, Why don't you say the same to the guy I was replying to? Oh I know why, it is because he is also a Marciano fan.
Thirdly, my opinion is based on logic and common sense, not fan boy whims.
Every great boxer who ever lived, lost eventually or would do if they continued on and on. Age is one opponent no one can beat. The only reason anyone retires undefeated is because they retire before they lose, NOT because they are unbeatable. Common sense.

[soul_survivor]

Firstly my opinion can be based on whatever I decide.
Secondly, Why don't you say the same to the guy I was replying to? Oh I know why, it is because he is also a Marciano fan.
Thirdly, my opinion is based on logic and common sense, not fan boy whims.
Every great boxer who ever lived, lost eventually or would do if they continued on and on. Age is one opponent no one can beat. The only reason anyone retires undefeated is because they retire before they lose, NOT because they are unbeatable. Common sense.

But why is your opinion of Marciano based on the idea that he MIGHT have lost? That makes no sense. Like I said, Marciano is a heavyweight great, is he the best? Certainly not but in a division with Ali, Foreman, Holyfield et al, simply being great is exceptional work.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Yes boss right away. How dare I ask questions about a record that people think is awesome, but when looked at is terrible? Not that I care, but for the record, are you actually saying that ALL of it is false?

It was just a bunch of misrepresentations. Fake news style.