Lifting Weights and Boxing?

[Mr.MojoRisin']

That was Holyfields comfortable weight because he took steroids to be more muscular, and stronger. Exactly what youre saying isnt beneficial. He didnt have cardio problems either.

I never said Holyfield had stamina problems.

Every thing I'm saying isn't beneficial? Doing boxing specific work isn't beneficial? Calisthenics aren't beneficial? That one could be argued. Running isn't beneficial? That cannot be argued successfully.

I think you need to do some serious training to get an insight into this topic.

[HedonisticFrog]

I never said Holyfield had stamina problems.

Every thing I'm saying isn't beneficial? Doing boxing specific work isn't beneficial? Calisthenics aren't beneficial? That one could be argued. Running isn't beneficial? That cannot be argued successfully.

I think you need to do some serious training to get an insight into this topic.

You said gaining muscle ruins your stamina. Holyfield added on a lot of muscle using steroids. So abiding by your logic Holyfield should have stamina problems. Except you don't use logic.

The rest of what you said is irrelevant. It's hilarious that you say punching power and size doesn't matter btw.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

You said gaining muscle ruins your stamina. Holyfield added on a lot of muscle using steroids. So abiding by your logic Holyfield should have stamina problems. Except you don't use logic.

The rest of what you said is irrelevant. It's hilarious that you say punching power and size doesn't matter btw.

I never said gaining muscle ruins your stamina.

I think you might have misread my post man.

[GelfSara]

You said gaining muscle ruins your stamina. Holyfield added on a lot of muscle using steroids. So abiding by your logic Holyfield should have stamina problems. Except you don't use logic.

The rest of what you said is irrelevant. It's hilarious that you say punching power and size doesn't matter btw.

FWIW, I personally believe Holyfield did NOT take steroids prior to--or at least immediately prior to--his first fight with Bowe--which he lost--but certainly did for the 2nd fight.

Holyfield weighed 205lbs for the first fight, 217lbs for the 2nd fight.

[GelfSara]

I never said gaining muscle ruins your stamina.

I think you might have misread my post man.

You wrote: "The only thing that lifting heavy will do for you is ruin your stamina. It doesn't make you stronger."

One of my favorite weight-training-related studies was conducted by Arthur Jones and his assistants with a group of (American) football players at West Point in 1975. It involved lifting to failure (i.e. "lifting heavy") for all exercises covering all major muscle groups in a circuit training fashion with no rest between exercise stations (aside from that needed to move from one to the next).

The results:

Muscular Strength. After 17 workouts (over 6 weeks), the trained group increased strength an average of 59% on ten exercises. There were no strength gains by the control group.

Cardiovascular Endurance. Subjects were wired with continuous EKG and blood pressure, tested several ways including an all-out test on stationary bike and a two mile run. The trained group was significantly better on all heart rate and blood pressure tests than the control group during all types of exertion. The two mile run showed the only negative, The trained group's average time was reduced by 88 seconds(!!), while the control group ran it 20 seconds faster than their pre-study average. [Note: the study involved no running!]

Joint Flexibility. The trained group improved their average trunk and shoulder flexibility by 11%. The control increased their average by only 1%.

For those who wish to read more, google:

Arthur Jones West Point project total conditioning

[Mr.MojoRisin']

You wrote: "The only thing that lifting heavy will do for you is ruin your stamina. It doesn't make you stronger."

One of my favorite weight-training-related studies was conducted by Arthur Jones and his assistants with a group of (American) football players at West Point in 1975. It involved lifting to failure (i.e. "lifting heavy") for all exercises covering all major muscle groups in a circuit training fashion with no rest between exercise stations (aside from that needed to move from one to the next).

The results:

Muscular Strength. After 17 workouts (over 6 weeks), the trained group increased strength an average of 59% on ten exercises. There were no strength gains by the control group.

Cardiovascular Endurance. Subjects were wired with continuous EKG and blood pressure, tested several ways including an all-out test on stationary bike and a two mile run. The trained group was significantly better on all heart rate and blood pressure tests than the control group during all types of exertion. The two mile run showed the only negative, The trained group's average time was reduced by 88 seconds(!!), while the control group ran it 20 seconds faster than their pre-study average. [Note: the study involved no running!]

Joint Flexibility. The trained group improved their average trunk and shoulder flexibility by 11%. The control increased their average by only 1%.

For those who wish to read more, google:

Arthur Jones West Point project total conditioning

Yes I said lifting weights will ruin stamina. What does this have to do with increasing muscle?

Please don't tell me you think lifting weights in and of itself builds muscle.

Eating more food with increased resistance training builds muscle.

[HedonisticFrog]

FWIW, I personally believe Holyfield did NOT take steroids prior to--or at least immediately prior to--his first fight with Bowe--which he lost--but certainly did for the 2nd fight.

Holyfield weighed 205lbs for the first fight, 217lbs for the 2nd fight.

There was a steroid distributor that was busted and had records for Holyfield for his entire professional career. That's including when he was a cruiserweight. Steroids are beneficial no matter what weight class you're in since they aid in recovery and strength as well.

[HedonisticFrog]

I never said gaining muscle ruins your stamina.

I think you might have misread my post man.

What about lifting weights ruins your cardio then?

[Mr.MojoRisin']

What about lifting weights ruins your cardio then?

It doesn't train your muscles to work like in a fight. Doing 5 rep sets won't improve stamina, it will hinder its ability to improve.

[GelfSara]

Yes I said lifting weights will ruin stamina. What does this have to do with increasing muscle?

Please don't tell me you think lifting weights in and of itself builds muscle.

Eating more food with increased resistance training builds muscle.

While one tends to gain MORE muscle while eating above maintenance, even persons who simultaneously go on a below-maintenance diet and begin a weight training program typically gain muscle while losing fat. This happens because adipose (fat) tissue contains far more energy per unit weight than muscle tissue, and the body can "rob" the energy required for daily needs (that is not provided by the hypocaloric diet) from fat stores while building muscle.

There are numerous studies on this; if you like, google

gaining muscle calorie deficit studies

Or go to Google Scholar and search more extensively.

Obviously, if one wishes to gain muscle while losing fat, in addition to an appropriate strength training program which hits all major muscle groups, it is very helpful for the diet to be only modestly below maintenance and high (1-1.5 grams/lb of bodyweight) in protein.