Seeing that Wilder is a huge favorite against Ortiz does this mean

[lightsout_finit]

Somebody ban me this troll please!!! We don’t need another degenerate on the boards.

Shut up kid

YDKSAB

[Raggamuffin]

Shut up kid

YDKSAB

You’ll be banned soon. You’re outta here!!!

[hugh grant]

That power in the heavyweight division beats "technical skill" and people are starting to realize that. Let's take George Foreman vs Joe Frazier. One could argue that Joe was more skilled than George but George's strength and power was the difference maker. Same could be said for Ali and Frazier 1. These are just a few examples where the most skilled heavyweight ended up losing the lesser skilled hw but with much more power. Will Wilder and Ortiz be the same way?

If you can take a punch that's the main thing. The thing is wilder hasn't thought anyone yet.
If Ortiz can take his punches he wins.
Ali was skillful but he had a helluva chin. Without that chin he'd lose to wilder

[Tom Cruise]

Are you going to refute any of my points?
Coward...



Yeah, So what?



And when did Frazier do this??

Well firstly when i said 'on thread' it meant i was finished replying to you and was now replying to the OP.

Secondly, Frazier had beaten many top contenders in his run up to the Ali fight, he then beat Muhammad Ali. Was it a peak Ali? No. But it was a hell of a lot closer to prime than any of Alis other losses.

But yeah he was exposed by Foreman and didnt do anything else in his career. Of course. He is universally ranked in the top 10 all time at HW because he lost to Foreman.

[kafkod]

Sounds good to a layman, but it's propaganda. Fans need to stop taking everything Hearn says at face value. He's a promoter. His job is to lie for a living. That is his primary focus.

Haymon and Hearn actually sat down face to face (Finkel was there as well). Money was not the issue. The real pros know what what these fights are worth and what the realistic splits are. AJ/Parker was always going to be two thirds/one third. Hearn & Haymon both realize AJ/Wilder is a 60/40 fight, maybe 62/38 with AJ picking up another belt.

The money was not the hold up. The hold up was simple. Hearn didn't want the fight yet. Claiming it would be worth far more at the end of the year than it would be at the beginning. Which is 100% true and Haymon & Finkel both realize that.

But here's the problem. What if Hearn doesn't intend on doing the fight at the end of the year or doing the fight at all? And just wanted Showtime's options to run out so he could leverage AJ into HBO giving him a dozen dates a year? That's not something SHO can match because they have too much tied up in Haymon to give Hearn a date every month.

You need to stop taking everything Wilder says at face value. There are 2 sides to every story. I realise that and I look at the situation as a whole.

Hearn and AJ had 2 unification options to consider for the first part of this year. both equally lucrative for them.

One was much easier to make than the other. And if it also suited Hearn's plans for other reasons, so what? He's out to make as much money for himself and his fighter as possible. Like you said, he's a boxing promoter.

AJ wants all 4 world title belts, and he's in a position to decide which order he goes after them in. Wilder will just have to wait till his turn comes, and make sure nobody touches that suspect chin of his in the meantime.

[N/A]

You need to stop taking everything Wilder says at face value.

I'm not taking ANYTHING Wilder says at face value. Wilder is just trying to build the fight. What he says publicly is irrelevant. It's hype to get people talking. Haymon & Finkel make the decisions.

Hearn and AJ had 2 unification options to consider for the first part of this year. both equally lucrative for them.

False. The Wilder fight is more lucrative than the Parker fight. Parker got the fight because he's considered the easier fight. Which is smart. You save the biggest unification fight for last. That's common sense.

One was much easier to make than the other.

False. AJ/Wilder would have been very easy to make if Hearn wanted the fight. But Hearn is a smart business man and even though a Wilder fight would make more money, it's also more dangerous and made no sense to do first.

Also, if Hearn's real plan here is to leverage HBO into giving him a bunch of dates, an AJ loss would have been DEVASTATING to his plan. Making it an absolute must to avoid Wilder.

And if it also suited Hearn's plans for other reasons, so what? He's out to make as much money for himself and his fighter as possible. Like you said, he's a boxing promoter.

And I never criticize him for it. I would do exactly what Hearn is doing. I'm criticizing fans for being fooled by him. I'm not criticizing him for fooling people. That's his job.

[kafkod]

I'm not taking ANYTHING Wilder says at face value. Wilder is just trying to build the fight. What he says publicly is irrelevant. It's hype to get people talking. Haymon & Finkel make the decisions.




False. The Wilder fight is more lucrative than the Parker fight. Parker got the fight because he's considered the easier fight. Which is smart. You save the biggest unification fight for last. That's common sense.




False. AJ/Wilder would have been very easy to make if Hearn wanted the fight. But Hearn is a smart business man and even though a Wilder fight would make more money, it's also more dangerous and made no sense to do first.

Also, if Hearn's real plan here is to leverage HBO into giving him a bunch of dates, an AJ loss would have been DEVASTATING to his plan. Making it an absolute must to avoid Wilder.




And I never criticize him for it. I would do exactly what Hearn is doing. I'm criticizing fans for being fooled by him. I'm not criticizing him for fooling people. That's his job.

AJ will probably make more money fighting Parker next than Wilder. Where have you got the idea from that Wilder brings more money?

Nobody in the UK is talking about AJ vs Wilder now, and in the US, they never were.

Deontay Wilder:

"It'll be 50/50 or we don't see a fight"

If Deontay didn't really mean that, then he shouldn't have said it so often, or kept on saying it for so long.

[N/A]

AJ will probably make more money fighting Parker next than Wilder.

What do you base that on? I can't fathom a logical reason to believe that, so I'm curious what information influenced your opinion.

Where have you got the idea from that Wilder brings more money?

A few reasons. #1 - Wilder is a much bigger star than Parker. It's not even close. On twitter & instagram, Wilder has nearly 900,000 followers. Parker has around 200,000.

#2 - Wilder is from a very large country with a very large population. Parker is from a very tiny country. Wilder has had multiple fights with millions of viewers on free network television. He's one of the most well known current boxers in America. He delivers some of the best ratings on Showtime and his title win was Showtime's highest rated fight of the last 5 years, and one of their highest rated fights of all time.

#3 - Wilder is from the most lucrative country when it comes to boxing. More money can be generated in the US for a big fight than any other place on the planet. You can price tickets much higher. You can price PPV much higher. It's an entirely different set of economics when you're talking a big US star vs. a big New Zealand star. It's not even close.

#4 - The world perceives AJ & Wilder as the top two fighters on the planet. That is the true dream fight in the division that will capture the world's imagination. AJ vs. Fury would be so big in the UK that you could maybe argue that would be as lucrative, but Parker just isn't on that level in terms of name value, what he brings to the table in terms of foreign television, etc.

#5 - Wilder holds the most prestigious championship in the sport. Parker holds the least prestigious recognized championship in the division. In a lot of countries, when you're selling the foreign rights, the WBO has nowhere near the honor and prestige of the WBC.

#6 - Parker's recent fights have been of a very low level against low level competition. Tape delay. Not shown at all. Youtube. You name it. Parker is not the established commodity that Wilder is.

Don't get me wrong, AJ is a MUCH MUCH bigger star than Wilder. It's not even close. But just as there is a clear divide between AJ and Wilder, there is also a clear divide between Wilder and Parker.

Nobody in the UK is talking about AJ vs Wilder now, and in the US, they never were.

Where do you live? I wouldn't dare tell you what people in the UK were talking about. Hearn controls the narrative there and when he wants people to talk about Wilder, they will. But here in the states, Wilder's knockout of Stiverne went viral, as did his call out of AJ. There was major steam over here for AJ vs. Wilder coming out of that second Stiverne fight. It only died down because it quickly became clear that Hearn didn't want the fight yet (nor should he).

Deontay Wilder:

"It'll be 50/50 or we don't see a fight"

If Deontay didn't really mean that, then he shouldn't have said it so often, or kept on saying it for so long.

How do you know what he shouldn't have said? What are your qualifications? What is your experience? What's the largest deal you've ever negotiated? Wilder literally has the two most successful managers in the entire history of boxing advising him. Is it possible they know more about negotiating than you do? They've negotiated the biggest fights in the history of planet Earth. Is it possible they know more about negotiating than you do?

Parker's side said OVER AND OVER AND OVER "we won't take a penny less than 40%." Of course they didn't mean it. It's a negotiation. They settled for a third, or maybe even less.

Wilder is going to say 50/50. Hearn is going to say 70/30. And they'll meet somewhere in the middle. If AJ stays with Showtime.

If Hearn can get a dozen dates a year out of HBO, then this fight is toast. And that would break my heart. Because they're both great fighters. They're clearly the best. It would be for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world. The first of the four belt era. They're both charismatic personalities. Undefeated vs. undefeated. UK vs. US. It has the makings of an all time great trilogy. It would be tragic if HBO ****blocks this rivalry.

[kiDynamite92]

Yeah, cos that was the best Of Ali. Right?

I'll tell you who is skilled. Kevin McBride?
More skills than Tyson. Right?

Yeah cause that's really comparable right? After losing to Frasier he went ontowun the heavyweight title a few more times and have his greatest victories while Tyson on the other hand retired.

[kafkod]

What do you base that on? I can't fathom a logical reason to believe that, so I'm curious what information influenced your opinion.




A few reasons. #1 - Wilder is a much bigger star than Parker. It's not even close. On twitter & instagram, Wilder has nearly 900,000 followers. Parker has around 200,000.

#2 - Wilder is from a very large country with a very large population. Parker is from a very tiny country. Wilder has had multiple fights with millions of viewers on free network television. He's one of the most well known current boxers in America. He delivers some of the best ratings on Showtime and his title win was Showtime's highest rated fight of the last 5 years, and one of their highest rated fights of all time.

#3 - Wilder is from the most lucrative country when it comes to boxing. More money can be generated in the US for a big fight than any other place on the planet. You can price tickets much higher. You can price PPV much higher. It's an entirely different set of economics when you're talking a big US star vs. a big New Zealand star. It's not even close.

#4 - The world perceives AJ & Wilder as the top two fighters on the planet. That is the true dream fight in the division that will capture the world's imagination. AJ vs. Fury would be so big in the UK that you could maybe argue that would be as lucrative, but Parker just isn't on that level in terms of name value, what he brings to the table in terms of foreign television, etc.

#5 - Wilder holds the most prestigious championship in the sport. Parker holds the least prestigious recognized championship in the division. In a lot of countries, when you're selling the foreign rights, the WBO has nowhere near the honor and prestige of the WBC.

#6 - Parker's recent fights have been of a very low level against low level competition. Tape delay. Not shown at all. Youtube. You name it. Parker is not the established commodity that Wilder is.

Don't get me wrong, AJ is a MUCH MUCH bigger star than Wilder. It's not even close. But just as there is a clear divide between AJ and Wilder, there is also a clear divide between Wilder and Parker.




Where do you live? I wouldn't dare tell you what people in the UK were talking about. Hearn controls the narrative there and when he wants people to talk about Wilder, they will. But here in the states, Wilder's knockout of Stiverne went viral, as did his call out of AJ. There was major steam over here for AJ vs. Wilder coming out of that second Stiverne fight. It only died down because it quickly became clear that Hearn didn't want the fight yet (nor should he).




How do you know what he shouldn't have said? What are your qualifications? What is your experience? What's the largest deal you've ever negotiated? Wilder literally has the two most successful managers in the entire history of boxing advising him. Is it possible they know more about negotiating than you do? They've negotiated the biggest fights in the history of planet Earth. Is it possible they know more about negotiating than you do?

Parker's side said OVER AND OVER AND OVER "we won't take a penny less than 40%." Of course they didn't mean it. It's a negotiation. They settled for a third, or maybe even less.

Wilder is going to say 50/50. Hearn is going to say 70/30. And they'll meet somewhere in the middle. If AJ stays with Showtime.

If Hearn can get a dozen dates a year out of HBO, then this fight is toast. And that would break my heart. Because they're both great fighters. They're clearly the best. It would be for the undisputed heavyweight championship of the world. The first of the four belt era. They're both charismatic personalities. Undefeated vs. undefeated. UK vs. US. It has the makings of an all time great trilogy. It would be tragic if HBO ****blocks this rivalry.

Deontay Wilder:

"It'll be 50/50 or we don't see a fight"

Wilder needs to get himself an "advisor" who knows what day it is.