Sorry, but this boxers were /are incredibly overrated.

[Jc8804]

Add mayweather to the list. He is vastly overated.

[pedrog60]

500K against Leonard is pretty much an insult, its like if they offered GGG 1 million to fight Canelo.

[pedrog60]

Add mayweather to the list. He is vastly overated.

I cant agree on that one.

[pedrog60]

Pedro----love it. thank you. Disagree about Paq and Tyson but oh well. Ali---I call him the most most overrated human of the 20th century. Close second is Ghandi. Leonard---still thinking. Even with his loss to an almost-prime duran he fought a fight not suited to his strengths and almost won. I still hate him though. Tyson? never ducked a soul---maybe just Foreman. Continue the hate/ disagreements..... Good conversations except for the typical idiots

Yeh, thank you, at least some of the guys in here are intelligent people able to hold a decent conversation without acting like kindergarden dip****s.

[The Old LefHook]

Several of Leonard's greatest victories are tainted. Leonard did not mind a taint job at all if it helped him win. The so-called victory over Hagler was a pitty-pat contest. Leonard could not have Kayoed Hagler if he gave him a free shot like a Russian face slapping contest. I have watched that fight 20 or more times. Leonard won all right--by pitty-patting his way to a decision. Hardly satisfying for anyone, except that Leonard acted satisfied.

Duran II is heavily tainted. Leonard fooled Duran and his team. Sorry, folks, but that is not boxing. I find myself interested in and respect what happens inside the ring, not before it is entered.

One can easily say Leonard put the taint on these matches himself. The incredibly ignorant stoppage in the Benitez fight was the ref's fault, though. Imagine being a ref who stops a fight of that magnitude for the reason that the champ appears to possibly to be hurt with less than 5 seconds remaining. Incredible. Leonard was going to win anyway. Why stop the fight?

Of course then he got stomped by Hearns in their rematch and recieved a draw anyway. Typical Leonard gift from the judges. No one could open these gifts happily that should not have been theirs like Leonard and Ali. Give Leonard major credit for his public admission that he lost this fight. Fighters just do not do that. Leonard showed something pretty good by admitting that. He may be unique just for the admission.

Also, folks, I find no way to keep Leonard out of the top 5 AT welterweights and top 10 P4P AT. Let me put it this way: I think Leonard was better than the second best AT of most other divisions. I consider him #2 at AT welterweight. He would barely get by Gavilan and lose to Robinson, as the latter punched much harder and was nearly as fast. I flat do not think any other welterweights could handle Leonard at all. Some would give him rough encounters, but I do not see them beating him. Leonard would have to get by the Toy Bulldog, too, which I believe he could do from the small amount of Walker footage available.

[Anthony342]

Several of Leonard's greatest victories are tainted. Leonard did not mind a taint job at all if it helped him win. The so-called victory over Hagler was a pitty-pat contest. Leonard could not have Kayoed Hagler if he gave him a free shot like a Russian face slapping contest. I have watched that fight 20 or more times. Leonard won all right--by pitty-patting his way to a decision. Hardly satisfying for anyone, except that Leonard acted satisfied.

Duran II is heavily tainted. Leonard fooled Duran and his team. Sorry, folks, but that is not boxing. I find myself interested in and respect what happens inside the ring, not before it is entered.

One can easily say Leonard put the taint on these matches himself. The incredibly ignorant stoppage in the Benitez fight was the ref's fault, though. Imagine being a ref who stops a fight of that magnitude for the reason that the champ appears to possibly to be hurt with less than 5 seconds remaining. Incredible. Leonard was going to win anyway. Why stop the fight?

Of course then he got stomped by Hearns in their rematch and recieved a draw anyway. Typical Leonard gift from the judges. No one could open these gifts happily that should not have been theirs like Leonard and Ali. Give Leonard major credit for his public admission that he lost this fight. Fighters just do not do that. Leonard showed something pretty good by admitting that. He may be unique just for the admission.

Also, folks, I find no way to keep Leonard out of the top 5 AT welterweights and top 10 P4P AT. Let me put it this way: I think Leonard was better than the second best AT of most other divisions. I consider him #2 at AT welterweight. He would barely get by Gavilan and lose to Robinson, as the latter punched much harder and was nearly as fast. I flat do not think any other welterweights could handle Leonard at all. Some would give him rough encounters, but I do not see them beating him. Leonard would have to get by the Toy Bulldog, too, which I believe he could do from the small amount of Walker footage available.

Bravo, well said. Leonard also admitted to waiting until Hagler was shot to finally fight him, which he noticed when he saw the Mugabi fight in person. I believe he also mentioned on his Sportscentury bio going to a restaurant and talking to Hagler, who said he was about ready to retire. And yes, he admits he thought Hearns won the second fight and that he took a third Duran fight much later than it would've mattered on his resume. I think it was in that No Mas 30 for 30 doc where Duran asks Leonard why he waited until 1989 for a third fight between them and he said "because I could." Leonard's still an ATG for sure, but could've been ranked even higher if he had beaten Duran and Hagler at their best, instead of waiting them out.

That's one of the things I like about MMA. If 2 people fight for the same promotion, they gotta fight the best contenders after 2-3 wins and the champions have to fight the top contenders or they get stripped of their titles, like when Ortiz had his belt taken away for ducking Chuck Liddell. Boxing needs to do this a lot more. Or at least put some kind of limit on cherry picking.

[Elroy The Great]

I ll try to not make this too painful, but i feel like i need to say this.

a) Mike Tyson.

Great champion, makes it to the top 20 (at the HW division) at his prime.
But considering him among the top 10 best pound for pound fighters or the top 10 heavys, its ridicolous.

He never beated a really big name except an old larry holmes and a scared blown up cruiser Spinks.

b) Ray Leonard.

This guy, many people place him at the top 20 p4p or the top 10 as a welter / middleweight.

Being honest, if the analyze his 5/6 bigger fights, he wasnt that "sweet".

He lost to duran prime for prime, being Duran a natural lightweight.

He won to a dehydrated and unconditioned Duran only 5 months later, having duran got fat and slow after his victory in Montreal.

He got a lucky early stoppage over Thomas hearns, and before that, the hitman had clearly outboxed him and beated him on points.

Later on, as a middleweight, Hearns got robbed with a ridicoulous draw againts sugar ray, after knocking down leonard 2 times.

And then, after ducking Mike McCallum and Aaron Pyror his whole career, he came to suddenly fight and old and battered Marvin Hagler, and got away with a split decision which i consider a robbery as well.

c) Manny Pacquiao.

Nothing against the pac man, big fan of his, but today you can find a lot of people placing him in the top 10 pound 4 pound of history. No comments on that.

d)Rocky Marciano.

And undefeated record does nothing to make you a great fighter if you never truly fought any good fighter in his prime, and most of your opponents were bums of old fighters way past their prime.

Let the hate begin.

1) i agree. i dont think i have have him in the top 20. no one he beat ever amounted to anything. every ''champ'' he beat were the worse champs the hw div ever had in the worse modern era ever. if he were 23 years old, he wouldnt be remembered fondly.

2) more is made out of him than he deserves:
benitez, bfd (also overrated)
1-1 vs duran
pitty patted his way to victory vs shot hagler
should have been 1-1 vs tommy
his four ''best wins any fighter can ever have'' is just a collection of names.

the 1st hearns fight, doe
doesnt matter that tommy was out boxing srl or if he had a big lead over srl. srl bullied the puncher. the shlt was epic. luck had absolutely nothing to do with it.

c) mannys resume is definitely overrated.....making HIM overrated to some extent.

hes rated as a great fighter being hes climbed the div ladder. he has ''some'' notable names (albeit not many prime). the fight that got him the most respeck was slh.

when may fought him, he was a glorified promoter
when pac fought him, it was the best shlt to ever happen

he got shy and refused a no cutoff date vs may and was forgiven (his excuseS were funny AF !!!!)
had it been ''anyone'' one else (winkwink), that person would have been crucified !!!!!!
and pac fan boys know this is true.

he smiles a lot and is ''humble'', making it easy to rate him higher than he should be. if he had attitude and ego !!!!!!

d) the most overrated. if he had just 1 l, hed be forgotten. talk about beating up aarp members and a bunch of no hopers. yes, he hit ''really hard'' :lol!:

id like to say joe frazier, trinidad, 3g, kostya were also overrated

[New England]

Ray Leonard didn't duck Aaron Pryor, if anything it's the other way around, in the post fight interview of his fight against Leonard Blackmoore, Pryor states that Leonard offered him a career high payday that he turned down, one of the biggest myths in boxing that people just believe without looking into it.

He ducked McCallum in what year exactly ?, you say his whole career so I'm assuming you mean while Leonard was at Welterweight from 79 - 84 while Leonard was busy fighting Hearns, Duran, Kalule and Benitez while McCallum was nowhere to be seen ?, or was it in his return where he was fighting Hagler and re-matching Hearns ?, wait silly me you must mean when Leonard was way past it and fighting Terry Norris right ?.

Right Hearns got robbed when they fought past prime, let's just ignore that Leonard knocked him out at Welterweight, that never happened.

He lost too Duran ?, what a ****in loser, how dare he lose a close fight to one of the greatest boxers ever, he won a fight against that same man 5 months later because he quit ? (The fight being a lot closer then most remember and Duran still making a good account of himself), what a ****in loser.

He won a close fight with Marvin ****in Hagler after not fighting at all for the previous 3 years ?, my god you're right, after that in depth analysis you gave of his career this guy is clearly terrible.

[Mintcar923]

Completely ridiculous! Both Marciano and Tyson cleaned out their division and fought the best of their time.. Inactivity and troubles outside the ring led to Mikes decline in skills but even then he was well on his way to replicating what he did in his second career.. Besides prime Tyson had perhaps the most natural talent other than prime Ali..

I actually got Rocky as #1 heavyweight a perfect career and 3/4 of a century later his record had not been broken in his division.. Coincidence? No way!!

Ray Leonard guilty of picking opponents in his latter days but there was not a superstar in the 80's he didn't hold wins over.. Though I still think you have a point with Hearns who I believe is technically better and did avenge the loss in the rematch though got robbed.. He also could have beaten Hagler if he'd had decided to box instead of slug.. Tactical mistake but awesome for the fans!!

Manny I got mixed feelings on.. He lost to a couple nobodies and was suceptable to getting knocked out.. However he still clearly was dedicated, loved the sport and tried his best each and every time.. Besides that tremendous longevity a la Floyd..

[Johnny Steele]

Several of Leonard's greatest victories are tainted. Leonard did not mind a taint job at all if it helped him win. The so-called victory over Hagler was a pitty-pat contest. Leonard could not have Kayoed Hagler if he gave him a free shot like a Russian face slapping contest. I have watched that fight 20 or more times. Leonard won all right--by pitty-patting his way to a decision. Hardly satisfying for anyone, except that Leonard acted satisfied.

Duran II is heavily tainted. Leonard fooled Duran and his team. Sorry, folks, but that is not boxing. I find myself interested in and respect what happens inside the ring, not before it is entered.

One can easily say Leonard put the taint on these matches himself. The incredibly ignorant stoppage in the Benitez fight was the ref's fault, though. Imagine being a ref who stops a fight of that magnitude for the reason that the champ appears to possibly to be hurt with less than 5 seconds remaining. Incredible. Leonard was going to win anyway. Why stop the fight?

Of course then he got stomped by Hearns in their rematch and recieved a draw anyway. Typical Leonard gift from the judges. No one could open these gifts happily that should not have been theirs like Leonard and Ali. Give Leonard major credit for his public admission that he lost this fight. Fighters just do not do that. Leonard showed something pretty good by admitting that. He may be unique just for the admission.

Also, folks, I find no way to keep Leonard out of the top 5 AT welterweights and top 10 P4P AT. Let me put it this way: I think Leonard was better than the second best AT of most other divisions. I consider him #2 at AT welterweight. He would barely get by Gavilan and lose to Robinson, as the latter punched much harder and was nearly as fast. I flat do not think any other welterweights could handle Leonard at all. Some would give him rough encounters, but I do not see them beating him. Leonard would have to get by the Toy Bulldog, too, which I believe he could do from the small amount of Walker footage available.

Not a bad post.
Could you please explain the Bold?

Also I think Basilio would beat Leonard like a rug.