Rank any 147 and below fighter over Henry Armstrong?

[PivotandRoll]

I was being sarcastic. That lying **** didn't have any stomach pains.



lol what?

It's actually kinda sad that you think you are taking some kinda intellectual high-ground by laughing at Whitaker(who may I add beat a person on the list you didn't laugh at ) and Marquez.

[Canelo and GGG]

I don't think that's true and is another great boxing myth. Take the first fight for example. It was close and competitive largely due to Leonard wanting to fight fire with fire, rather than using his tactics of boxing at range early and then going in for the kill late.

There's a lot of talk of Duran not being in shape but he came in shape and on weight. In fact, he only weighed half a pound heavier on the scales but was still a full pound under the limit. That does not indicate trouble making weight. Plus he had a full 5 months between the first fight and the second one. In those days, that was not a quick turn around as some suggest it was.

Duran lost the fight because Leonard did two things: 1) he did not allow Duran to get to him mentally and 2) he got to Duran mentally.

Leonard was always going to be taller with a longer reach and he used that to his advantage, keeping Duran off him for long stretches of the fight. He was also decidedly faster with both feet and hands. Duran hated it and quit. It broke his heart.

There have been several interviews and articles with people from Duran's corner at the time, who have over the course of the decades, eventually admitted that Duran just didn't want to fight on anymore. There were no stomach cramps or back pain or leg cramps, all the various issues Duran/Durans team initially cited. He also didn't have a problematic camp.

Leonard broke the great "real man's" heart. Thats why it took so long for Duran to come to terms with it. Heck, he still hasn't. He spent decades after that fight fighting bigger and bigger men just to probe he was still a real man but that night always haunts him.

Idk, Duran was chaseing him to the ropes and bullyed him back by holding strong if he tryed to Run ,and out boxed him sometimes like in 2nd when he hurt him bad, he was animal ,in 2nd fight he spend whole camp on cutting weight, also wasnt focus, hell he probably still could beat him in Street brawl ROFL ,but he was frustreted cuse he probably wasnt in shape to chase so i wouldnt Tell he broke him ,if they will go toe to toe Roberto breaks him 10/10 even doe his smaller ,Robero is ten times a man that Ray is.I can say that Duran is greater that Ray but his greatness come from Lightweight, he was to Small for rest of faboulus 4.

[soul_survivor]

Idk, Duran was chaseing him to the ropes and bullyed him back by holding strong if he tryed to Run ,and out boxed him sometimes like in 2nd when he hurt him bad, he was animal ,in 2nd fight he spend whole camp on cutting weight, also wasnt focus, hell he probably still could beat him in Street brawl ROFL ,but he was frustreted cuse he probably wasnt in shape to chase so i wouldnt Tell he broke him ,if they will go toe to toe Roberto breaks him 10/10 even doe his smaller ,Robero is ten times a man that Ray is.I can say that Duran is greater that Ray but his greatness come from Lightweight, he was to Small for rest of faboulus 4.

You're going off of what you like being a fan and I assume you're latino. I'm just going off of the reality of the situation. Duran's heart was broken. That's all that matter really. Plus, Duran had spent almost the entire mid70s to the end of his career ballooning up in weight. Cutting that much weight was not new to him.

It's not a good enough excuse imo.

[soul_survivor]

It's actually kinda sad that you think you are taking some kinda intellectual high-ground by laughing at Whitaker(who may I add beat a person on the list you didn't laugh at ) and Marquez.

Yeah he beat Chavez but Chavez had a HUGE body of work by that point and the longest unbeaten run in boxing history. Please don't say he beat cab drivers cos that myth is about as useful as your penis in a brothel.

That last part is a joke, dont take it personally.

All I'm saying is, Whitaker is not a top 10-15 ATG, according to many, including the likes of Sugar and ESPN (who had a panel of journalists work on it). I know this is often subjective but when you have many opinions to the contrary, you shouldn't even begin to imagine including Whitaker as a top 3 in the same breath as Armstrong.

[Canelo and GGG]

You're going off of what you like being a fan and I assume you're latino. I'm just going off of the reality of the situation. Duran's heart was broken. That's all that matter really. Plus, Duran had spent almost the entire mid70s to the end of his career ballooning up in weight. Cutting that much weight was not new to him.

It's not a good enough excuse imo.

Im not ,you have my location on my profile ,he broke him mentaly (maybe Roberto broke himself)but Duran hearth was never broken ,Leonard probably was better Pure boxer ,but you need to admit that he was to Small for rest of greats like Tommy or Hagler ,not only ppl from latino countrys Love Duran ,he would broke Ray in war ,you cant say otherwise he did it in First fight .If i would be rude i would say that you Love Ray cuse you are from USA (come on bro)Roberto is Loved world wide (did you hear nie crawd cheered him in Montreal unbelivable)

[PivotandRoll]

Yeah he beat Chavez but Chavez had a HUGE body of work by that point and the longest unbeaten run in boxing history. Please don't say he beat cab drivers cos that myth is about as useful as your penis in a brothel.

That last part is a joke, dont take it personally.

All I'm saying is, Whitaker is not a top 10-15 ATG, according to many, including the likes of Sugar and ESPN (who had a panel of journalists work on it). I know this is often subjective but when you have many opinions to the contrary, you shouldn't even begin to imagine including Whitaker as a top 3 in the same breath as Armstrong.

That body of work Chavez has is why Whitaker beating him was so impressive. Simple as this, who did Armstrong ever beat as good as Chavez in the manner that Whitaker beat him? No one.


If you disagree fine, but I think Whitaker was the superior fighter.... Years as champion, Number of fights unbeaten, number of weights classes jumped....Doesn't really matter half as much as the quality of opposition you beat in my opinion.

[soul_survivor]

Im not ,you have my location on my profile ,he broke him mentaly (maybe Roberto broke himself)but Duran hearth was never broken ,Leonard probably was better Pure boxer ,but you need to admit that he was to Small for rest of greats like Tommy or Hagler ,not only ppl from latino countrys Love Duran ,he would broke Ray in war ,you cant say otherwise he did it in First fight .If i would be rude i would say that you Love Ray cuse you are from USA (come on bro)Roberto is Loved world wide (did you hear nie crawd cheered him in Montreal unbelivable)

Ahh your polish, my bad lol

But that was more tongue in cheek.

Plus, I'm a Duran fan but I'm not blinded by him. Maybe your very young.

Just look at the facts:

Duran blowing up in weight was not new or unusual, so why should that be an excuse this time round?

Duran came in only half a pound more than the last time.

He showed no signs of being weight drained.

Part of the story to exonerate blame from Duran is that the rematch was too quick, yet immediately following the fight, both men said they wanted the rematch. The rematch, especially after a 5month span, was not a surprise to either man.

He tried moving effectively early on and got Leonard with some shots but as Leonard got better and quicker, Duran missed more and more.

Duran quit and told his management to make up an excuse

Those excuses ranged from stomach cramps to shoulder pain to other cramps. Ray Arcel, Durans long time friend, trainer and father figure, was so disgusted that he quit Durans corner and almost quit boxing for good. He also went onto talk about 2 other fighters he had known and said they would never quit, implying Duran had quit.

Why make up excuses for a fight if you have a legitimate excuse? the answer is he didnt. He couldnt say he was unable to beat Leonard that night.

Many other people claim Duran ended the fight because he thought he would get an immediate rematch. That again, is false. Duran was slated to retire after the fight, so how could he expect a 3rd bout? Not to mention his trainers, managers and promoters all left him after the loss.

How does anyone make a fight with a fighter who has no management, trainers or promoters?

Take some time to read this and take it in. It's shocking to you as a big fan of his and I know you won't like it but once you contemplate the facts, you come to the same conclusion as me.

Actually, I'll add this to my myth thread.

[PivotandRoll]

Im not ,you have my location on my profile ,he broke him mentaly (maybe Roberto broke himself)but Duran hearth was never broken ,Leonard probably was better Pure boxer ,but you need to admit that he was to Small for rest of greats like Tommy or Hagler ,not only ppl from latino countrys Love Duran ,he would broke Ray in war ,you cant say otherwise he did it in First fight .If i would be rude i would say that you Love Ray cuse you are from USA (come on bro)Roberto is Loved world wide (did you hear nie crawd cheered him in Montreal unbelivable)

But your argument is nonsense. If Ray didn't use his advantages then Roberto would win? Well duh!

When Canelo fights GGG will you want him to out man GGG or will you want him to box and counter smartly?

I prefer Duran( I really do) but Ray beat him and any excuse is just that, an excuse. I also have controversial opinions about the first fight tbh..

Ray was in Duran's position when he fought Hearns...Ray didn't quit, he rallied and got the stoppage.

Duran got sick of chasing a guy he knew he couldn't catch. Any talk of broken minds or hearts is ridiculous.

[Canelo and GGG]

Ahh your polish, my bad lol

But that was more tongue in cheek.

Plus, I'm a Duran fan but I'm not blinded by him. Maybe your very young.

Just look at the facts:

Duran blowing up in weight was not new or unusual, so why should that be an excuse this time round?

Duran came in only half a pound more than the last time.

He showed no signs of being weight drained.

Part of the story to exonerate blame from Duran is that the rematch was too quick, yet immediately following the fight, both men said they wanted the rematch. The rematch, especially after a 5month span, was not a surprise to either man.

He tried moving effectively early on and got Leonard with some shots but as Leonard got better and quicker, Duran missed more and more.

Duran quit and told his management to make up an excuse

Those excuses ranged from stomach cramps to shoulder pain to other cramps. Ray Arcel, Durans long time friend, trainer and father figure, was so disgusted that he quit Durans corner and almost quit boxing for good. He also went onto talk about 2 other fighters he had known and said they would never quit, implying Duran had quit.

Why make up excuses for a fight if you have a legitimate excuse? the answer is he didnt. He couldnt say he was unable to beat Leonard that night.

Many other people claim Duran ended the fight because he thought he would get an immediate rematch. That again, is false. Duran was slated to retire after the fight, so how could he expect a 3rd bout? Not to mention his trainers, managers and promoters all left him after the loss.

How does anyone make a fight with a fighter who has no management, trainers or promoters?

Take some time to read this and take it in. It's shocking to you as a big fan of his and I know you won't like it but once you contemplate the facts, you come to the same conclusion as me.

Actually, I'll add this to my myth thread.

I know he lost fair just like he won first fair ,just saying that talking that Roberto Heart was broken is bull**** .WW he was Small but ok but MW was horible ,he was a midget .But was Duran lw Run so good?that experts rank him so high?i watched most of his title fights but how much are this names worth beside (Dejesus )some was Good but not big names. He just quited cuse he get mad on Ray that he Run its just do Simple imo its true and not all this theoris, he quited and lose no excuses

[Canelo and GGG]

But your argument is nonsense. If Ray didn't use his advantages then Roberto would win? Well duh!

When Canelo fights GGG will you want him to out man GGG or will you want him to box and counter smartly?

I prefer Duran( I really do) but Ray beat him and any excuse is just that, an excuse. I also have controversial opinions about the first fight tbh..

Ray was in Duran's position when he fought Hearns...Ray didn't quit, he rallied and got the stoppage.

Duran got sick of chasing a guy he knew he couldn't catch. Any talk of broken minds or hearts is ridiculous.

yea i know he just quit cuse he was mad on Ray, lol Roberto just dont give a **** ?anway they both won fair theyr fights ,imo in first Duran hurt Ray early and dominated rest, in 2 he didnt so Ray was running and Duran get mad ,Ray was just boxing with Hearn and slept in some raunds early on Then cameback ,he could reach Hearn all the time, Duran wasnt even hurt he just quited .