What Role Has Judging Played in the Death of Inside Fighting?

[-Hyperion-]

The whole boxing system needs an overhaul. Out with senile judges-refs. True accountability for f/uck ups. Better defined rules for refs-judges, Use the tehcnology(cameras-microphones-replay).

Sport corruption is really just a reflection of our society. Mexican gyms still teach inside fighting because if you're the A-side, you're gonna be allowed to work the body(or even below). American gyms don't teach it because of their amateur system and the fact that judges like their fighters "flashy". In Germany, the home fighter gets all the advantages he wants, so they' can foul when they want but if it's done back to them, the opponent is gonna get chastisised(see Abraham-Ottke-Klitschko).

It's the same in every damn sport, the so called best get all the adavantages the system can provide...football and baseball get unlimited money to sign all the best, and all the ref calls. In handegg, the top teams get all the calls, in basketball, the stars get all the calls...and then the fans who have an agenda just turn a blind eye...how the **** can they be the best when they need every advantage?

I always say, watching Berto-Collazo and Berto-Urango or Berto-Forbes is a good example of how much of a difference the officiating makes.

Berto-Collazo

Collazo brings it to Berto. Ref is quick to deduct from Berto for excessive clinching, Berto has to grow as a fighter, dig deep and have a good performance in a fight of the year candidate, gets a questionable decision.

Berto-Urango/Forbes

Opponent brings it. Berto is allowed to clinch the smaller man all night long, wears them down with his clinches, subdues the trouble he had early thanks to the clinching, operates from his comfort zone, walks away with an easy decision that did nothing for his development as a fighter and left everyone bored to sleep.

The system is a joke.

[AllEyesOpen]

Excellent discussion, with many great points but I would like to add one. I think overall fighters nowadays have a better understanding of how to tie up effectively on the inside and reset the action, guys like Mayweather and Hopkins even throw in a few shot on the opposite side of the ref with their free hand. The flaws come from the inside fighters who fall into the clinch and just wait for the ref instead of working out of it. Maidana was able to do some very good work against Mayweather by not just accepting the clinch but by getting loose and letting his hands go. The ref wasn't helping him but he was still able to put in some good work. Also there's something to be said about the fact boxers aren't using much head movement to get inside these days, Pacquiao used to have great head movement that would help set up his offense.

The point was already made though that inside skill is emphasized more in the latin boxing world then in the U.S.

[bojangles1987]

Even the boxers lack inside skills nowadays. Boxers like Toney, Whitaker, Mayweather, Hopkins, Leonard, etc. were all well rounded fighters that could be extremely productive inside the pocket.

Nowadays you look at everybody from Lara, Rigondeaux, Khan, Brook, etc. they are either extremely reliant on their feet or they revert to clinching when their opponent closes distance.

That's a big reason why Ward is so dominant. Historically you wouldn't call Ward a particularly great inside fighter, but he is good, and his skill inside is so far beyond the nonexistent skill that exists today that none of his opponents know how to deal with it.

[IronDanHamza]

That's a big reason why Ward is so dominant. Historically you wouldn't call Ward a particularly great inside fighter, but he is good, and his skill inside is so far beyond the nonexistent skill that exists today that none of his opponents know how to deal with it.

Even by the likes of Froch for example who is an old school esque fighter.

He was bamboozled by Ward on the inside aNd had no clue how to prevent it.

[-PBP-]

That's a big reason why Ward is so dominant. Historically you wouldn't call Ward a particularly great inside fighter, but he is good, and his skill inside is so far beyond the nonexistent skill that exists today that none of his opponents know how to deal with it.

Yep. And to a lesser degree Lamont Peterson. He's not an elite level fighter by any means but he has given much higher level fighters like Khan and Garcia troubles because of his ability to get inside and be effective.

[-PBP-]

Excellent discussion, with many great points but I would like to add one. I think overall fighters nowadays have a better understanding of how to tie up effectively on the inside and reset the action, guys like Mayweather and Hopkins even throw in a few shot on the opposite side of the ref with their free hand. The flaws come from the inside fighters who fall into the clinch and just wait for the ref instead of working out of it. Maidana was able to do some very good work against Mayweather by not just accepting the clinch but by getting loose and letting his hands go. The ref wasn't helping him but he was still able to put in some good work. Also there's something to be said about the fact boxers aren't using much head movement to get inside these days, Pacquiao used to have great head movement that would help set up his offense.

The point was already made though that inside skill is emphasized more in the latin boxing world then in the U.S.

This is a good point. You saw a huge difference in Maidana in how he handled Floyd's clinch versus the Alexander fight years ago when he would just break down and stop working. Porter was pretty effective in getting inside against Broner but once he got there he smothered his work and couldn't inflict much damage in the pocket. I think with some new heads in his camp and tweaks in his game he can develop into a decent inside fighter.

[Jc8804]

Refs are blame along with managers.

Imo there is no doubt boxing is corrupt and always has been corrupt.
It was corrupt long ago and its still corrupt today. Some fan bases just wanna pretend that its not.

In reality refs judges are taking payoffs and getting more work from certain fighters very often..

Take for instance floyd. He gets the judges he wants and refs he wants. Im sure there is a discussion in which floyd and his people say dont let this guy get close to me.

Fights are paid off in more ways than one.