If Whyte was 'cleared' 3 days away, how come Canelo wasn't 'cleared' 78 days away?!

[_Rexy_]

Well indeed - but procedures don't work like that, you don't pick and choose whether or not you follow protocol depending on which drug was involved - you still need to make sure you haven't fucked up the test in some way or made some other obvious blunder before you go telling everyone dude's a cheat...

Except in this case the safety of the opposing fighter should absolutely have taken priority IMO.

Anyway - whilst I agree that the procedure is wrong, or at least perhaps inappropriate for combat sports - I'm not actually getting the accusations of corruption. At least, not based upon the information we have so far. Don't get me wrong, I virtually expect corruption from everyone in this damn sport, but I ain't gonna go jumping the gun when there is an alternative explanation...


What's that saying - yeah - Hanlon's razor... "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

I think Occams Razor applies better for this scenario - "The simplest solution is most likely the right one."

[Thuglife Nelo]

Nano traces, huh? You cheeky lil revisionist! And to mention Contador in the same breath! Anyways, good luck with your mission, man, but I'm off on my hols

There are many designer steroids. I have no idea how the gurus like a Conte or a Heredia or an Ariza know how to stack a designer steroid for a nice gain in quick time.

For Whyte to have had a nano trace .06 or 3ng during fight week suggests he was on a supplement that does the wonders come fight night. I don’t think Whyte expected a sample from UKAD so close... and he said “one in a million” to reference the positive sample as in it want supposed to happen.

[champion4ever]

Let's be realistic, if you're 'cleared' to fight, in any scenario, the ONLY justification from BBBoC means that they THOUGHT - given the findings - that NO HARM would come to Rivas...

that's the only logical explanation to ''clear'' a fighter just 3 days away, and is the reason why they thought Rivas didn't need to be notified.

so....

how come the grandmaster Canelo wasn't cleared 78 days away with a lower amount than Francisco Vargas....and Andy Foster said, ''and it was such a low amount and so far away from the fight we thought it would be ok.''

WAR CANELO!

yall make it too easy mayne!

Those are two different governing bodies and two different testing agencies. Whyte was busted by UKAD and the BBBoC did not clear Dillian Whyte to fight; However they did allow him to fight pending an appeal of his A-sample.

The Nevada State Athletic Commission and most commissions stateside don't allow that. Canelo was busted by VADA.

Therefore, once a fighter pops dirty for doping or for anything, both principles, the governing and sanctioning bodies are notified before there is a determination on whether or not to allow the fighter to compete in the ring.

[Thuglife Nelo]

Those are two different governing bodies and two different testing agencies. Whyte was busted by UKAD and the BBBoC did not clear Dillian Whyte to fight; However they did allow him to fight pending an appeal of his A-sample.

The Nevada State Athletic Commission and most commissions stateside don't allow that. Canelo was busted by VADA.

Therefore, once a fighter pops dirty for doping or for anything, both principles and the governing and sanctioning bodies are notified before there is a determination to allow the fighter to compete in the ring or not.

You are confused with regulation. Nobody ever challenges VADA “busting” Francisco Vargas. To put it in better perspective, let’s take Swift vs Morales. Back then there wasn’t even a narrative about trace amounts. Fact is Morales was so out of shape he needed Clenbuterol during fight week, rematch, and in both fights had a hard time making 140.

Swift Garcia didn’t care because even though he was notified. Back then it was USADA I believe. USADA too has exonerated athletes for using Clen as VADA (Vargas). A lot of boxing fans don’t have a clue that adverse findings, if proven no intentional use along with conclusive testing, that a fighter can be exonerated. We need to stop being naive that every adverse finding is guilty as well as educating ourselves the time frame of the positive sample.

And again, many fans don’t know what “post” means, meaning after, meaning a test done right after the fight. LDBC idiots will tell you that RJJ and Hall are innocent because the state of Indiana couldn’t do anything about their anabolic steroid findings and even funnier, Jones blamed it on a supplement.

What it’s even more idiotic is for athletes to justify or industry knowing that a supplement such as Ripped Fuel was an over the counter designer steroid...it’s rather practical to say “well it was available over the counter...” while the athlete uses it, and Jones and Hall were both from Florida...

Again. If RJJ and Hall isn’t the best example of a post fight fail test along with Toney... that its somehow hard to understand reasonable doubt that they didn’t cheat... then unfortunately boxing fans are stupid. It’s not advanced calculus.

But 78 days away doe for something not even in the realm of Dbol or Ripped Fuel. Dbol has a half life decay or 3-5 hours... whereas Clen has up to 36-48 hours decay. As Doug Fischer said, why would Canelo take Clen when there’s better stuff out there, doesn’t make any sense and it’s like leaving the scene of a crime riding a turtle waiting for Clen to leave the system.

[LetOutTheCage]

Well indeed - but procedures don't work like that, you don't pick and choose whether or not you follow protocol depending on which drug was involved - you still need to make sure you haven't fucked up the test in some way or made some other obvious blunder before you go telling everyone dude's a cheat...

Except in this case the safety of the opposing fighter should absolutely have taken priority IMO.

Anyway - whilst I agree that the procedure is wrong, or at least perhaps inappropriate for combat sports - I'm not actually getting the accusations of corruption. At least, not based upon the information we have so far. Don't get me wrong, I virtually expect corruption from everyone in this damn sport, but I ain't gonna go jumping the gun when there is an alternative explanation...


What's that saying - yeah - Hanlon's razor... "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

A logical post in a sea of stupidity and ignorance. If only more people were as level-headed

[Citizen Koba]

I think Occams Razor applies better for this scenario - "The simplest solution is most likely the right one."

Occams is always a good one, but which solution requires the fewest assumptions in this case?

Worth thinking about anyways... But I ain't debating now cos I'm supposed to be on holiday. Sides I respect your opinion, but I just ain't seeing evidence of corruption... yet.

[champion4ever]

You are confused with regulation. Nobody ever challenges VADA “busting” Francisco Vargas. To put it in better perspective, let’s take Swift vs Morales. Back then there wasn’t even a narrative about trace amounts. Fact is Morales was so out of shape he needed Clenbuterol during fight week, rematch, and in both fights had a hard time making 140.

Swift Garcia didn’t care because even though he was notified. Back then it was USADA I believe. USADA too has exonerated athletes for using Clen as VADA (Vargas). A lot of boxing fans don’t have a clue that adverse findings, if proven no intentional use along with conclusive testing, that a fighter can be exonerated. We need to stop being naive that every adverse finding is guilty as well as educating ourselves the time frame of the positive sample.

And again, many fans don’t know what “post” means, meaning after, meaning a test done right after the fight. LDBC idiots will tell you that RJJ and Hall are innocent because the state of Indiana couldn’t do anything about their anabolic steroid findings and even funnier, Jones blamed it on a supplement.

What it’s even more idiotic is for athletes to justify or industry knowing that a supplement such as Ripped Fuel was an over the counter designer steroid...it’s rather practical to say “well it was available over the counter...” while the athlete uses it, and Jones and Hall were both from Florida...

Again. If RJJ and Hall isn’t the best example of a post fight fail test along with Toney... that its somehow hard to understand reasonable doubt that they didn’t cheat... then unfortunately boxing fans are stupid. It’s not advanced calculus.

But 78 days away doe for something not even in the realm of Dbol or Ripped Fuel. Dbol has a half life decay or 3-5 hours... whereas Clen has up to 36-48 hours decay. As Doug Fischer said, why would Canelo take Clen when there’s better stuff out there, doesn’t make any sense and it’s like leaving the scene of a crime riding a turtle waiting for Clen to leave the system.

Well, at least taking Ripped Fuel is a much better excuse than eating tainted beef because that shitty excuse doesn't fly anymore Also, why does every time a fighter from Mexico pops dirty for Clenbuterol they always blame it on tainted beef; I wonder why?

Then what about the Australian Heavyweight boxer Lucas Browne who also tested positive for Clenbuterol? Was he on tainted beef as well?

Look as I stated before, do I believe that Roy Jones was on the juice? Yes I do. He probably was but the problem is The Indiana State Athletic Commission couldn't prove it. So he got away with it.

You said that Ripped Fuel was an over the counter designer steroid. Man, now you know you are reaching. That's just plain absurd

That's the reason why they are called designer steroids because they can go undetected in the post fight piss test. If that was a designer steroid then he should have picked some better ones because he got exposed for elevated levels of testosterone in his system for using that one If those were truly designer roids then his tests would have all come back negative.

Now back to Morales, NYSAC got it right that time. There was an adverse finding in Erik's blood test but what did the commission do? They notified and summoned both the principles and the sanctioning bodies about the situation and the Garcia's decided to fight him anyway. That is proper protocol my friend.

In the Whyte case, the BBBoC dropped the ball. Team Rivas the opponent; Had every right to know that there was a positive drug test from Dillian Whyte's system.

He should have been notified and also the sanctioning bodies. in addition, the fight should have been postponed pending his appeal.

Lastly, I agree. Not every time a fighter pops dirty that they are deliberately trying to cheat in order to gain a competitive edge or advantage. Occasionally, mistakes are made.

They may have taking some kind of high energy drink or some other over the counter supplement that they were unaware of but that is not the case with Canelo. He knew was doing. He was trying to beat the system but got caught because he never did random testing for. I'm confident that he's been juicing for years but was never caught.

[Thuglife Nelo]

Well, at least taking Ripped Fuel is a much better excuse than eating tainted beef

I stopped reading here. Not because WADA in 2019 revised Clen and Meat Contamination. Not because Margaret Goodman herself acknowledges Clen Meat Contamination. Not because VADA consulted Andy Foster that Vargas' trace amounts were low for Clen too, closer to his fight, and half of Canelo, to be cleared to fight.

easy breezy. not because of that..

because again, you STILL DONT UNDERSTAND what a POST fight fail is! lol.

You just acknowledged RJJ and Hall failing post fight testing. Did these boxers use PEDS 1minute before they pissed in a cup or did they perform with something during the fight? You're so confused you're excusing Whyte... bruh, amateur comprehension hour

[champion4ever]

I stopped reading here. Not because WADA in 2019 revised Clen and Meat Contamination. Not because Margaret Goodman herself acknowledges Clen Meat Contamination. Not because VADA consulted Andy Foster that Vargas' trace amounts were low for Clen too, closer to his fight, and half of Canelo, to be cleared to fight.

easy breezy. not because of that..

because again, you STILL DONT UNDERSTAND what a POST fight fail is! lol.

You just acknowledged RJJ and Hall failing post fight testing. Did these boxers use PEDS 1minute before they pissed in a cup or did they perform with something during the fight? You're so confused you're excusing Whyte... bruh, amateur comprehension hour

Would you like for me to name you all of the athletes who have popped dirty for Clenbuterol and has received substantial suspensions and bans because of it? If you would like me to then I will be more than happy to oblige. Clenbuterol is classified by the World Anti-Doping Association as an anabolic agent. It's a PED and a steroid.

[Thuglife Nelo]

Clenbuterol is classified by the World Anti-Doping Association as an anabolic agent. It's a PED and a steroid.

lol. Don't deflect. The debate isn't whether or not Clenbuterol is a banned substance... yes everyone knows it has a anabolic properties like a steroid, but it's not, however, it's still a banned substance, and like I said, 2019 WADA revised atypical findings regarding meat contamination and Clenbuterol. Therefore, they have now acknowledged threshold findings in conjunction if and when the study is consistent with Meat Contamination.

VADA's go to lab and Director whom analyzed Canelo said it was consistent with meat contamination. TWO SAMPLES 3 days apart verified this..