Waddell investment down to the last 82M? OUT of (521M)

[Eastcoast]

The thing is the UFC had years and years in the wilderness before they connected with the fans like they do today. They most likely made mistakes, rebranded, changed their marketing strategy and whatever else in that time, gaining experience in the industry a long the way, until when they finally 'made it' they were a polished product.

PBC is in a similar period, making mistakes, seeing what works and what doesnt etc, but the difference is they are doing it with a huge chunk of the worlds boxers, spending tonnes of cash and doing it in front of pretty big audiences too.

Cant help but feel if the big W and R investment had come after PBC had time in the game getting teething problems sorted they could have spent the money much more effectively.

Exactly, the UFC almost went under a number of times after the Fertittas bought it. Lots of trial and error before they found a good model.

The Fertittas are billionaires, but that's their money and they weren't reckless & wasteful with it like Haymon's been. Keeping fighter pay on the lower side allowed them to reinvest heavily into the infrastructure of their company and kept the fighters hungry to make big fights on a regular basis. They also seen the value in establishing actual champions, not just title holders.

[The Big Dunn]

This guy from reddit say this, any investment bankers or economist here that can give their opinion? ? Or lawyers
COMMENTSRELATED
ALDO5408
Waddell & Reed's Investment in Haymon: $82 mil. remaining (of $521 mil.) as of December 31, 2015 self.Boxing
submitted 7 minutes ago by jimwilson128
Building off of my last post of the Q3 results from the mutual funds managed by Waddell & Reed that invested in Haymon:
Acquisition cost (initial value) of combined investment: $528,481,000
Market value of combined investment as of September 30, 2015: $214,288,000
Market value of combined investment as of December 31, 2015: $82,354,000
To date, the investment made into Media Group Holdings, Series H (which invested in Haymon Boxing) by the three Waddell & Reed funds (Ivy Asset Strategy, Ivy VIP Asset Strategy, Waddell & Reed Advisors Asset Strategy) has lost 84% of its value. At this rate, the investment will be worth zero dollars by the end of February, which implies that Haymon will run out of funding at that time

Not questioning the accuracy but is your contact suggesting Haymon spent over $130 mil the last qtr of 2015. Does this seem plausible given the fights he put on?

[Dr Rumack]

a broken clock is right twice a day, doe! a dude on reddit has no committment to telling the truth, the way a trained or paid journalist ideally should. as far as i know, reddit is an anonymous forum like the bscene, but admittedly i don't use it.

this guy could be haymon himself, dibella, a top boxing reporter. or he could be going to karceno, the boxing socialist, and seeing what sounds juicy, and posting it.

Yeah of course. But his numbers are from publicly available reports so it's not an anonymous source or anything. As was the case last time, the week or two should see more boxing reporters following up one way or the other.

[bigdunny1]

Not sure if these numbers are accurate or not but you have to be a complete idiot to not see they have lost more money then anticipated. Losses are in the hundreds of millions. I told people back starting in Fall of 2015 the TV ratings are bad and trending in the wrong direction and when you saw a huge dynamic shift if fights first being released to the media as PBC future fights getting either scraped from PBC and moved to Showtime (Jacobs vs Quillin) and others moved to 2016 and then ultimately scrapped from PBC and moved to Showtime (Thurman vs Porter) that is a bad sign because PBC can't afford these fights and is trying to limit their losses which is in the millions for each show they put out. With terrible TV ratings they can't get enough advertisment dollars to offset the high price tag these PBC events carry. It's just bad business when you paying guys like Lara 1mil to fight tomato cans when a guy like Lara has ZERO fanbase and can't draw more then 100 people to watch him fight in front of a rainy tent and the fight get's beat out in ratings by WNBA on ESPN2. Starting around Fall you saw Haymon's top fighters either taking the rest of the entire 2015 year off or fighting on Showtime instead of PBC. Only a fool thought this shift was by design and not a domino effect because they lost too much money in year 1. PBC has deep pockets but it's only a matter of time till the money is all gone or the Investors shut this thing down. Poor TV ratings, numerous stories about all the free tickets they are forced to give away and now they can't even afford to pay Haymon's top fighters to fight under PBC.

[about.thousands]

1) This person has been giving information on legal proceedings on Haymon/PBC vs everybody else since last year. Most the information that's posted about the cases came from this person when people made threads about it on reddit and posted here.

2) Unlike most the NSB lawyers here, this person actually read through the shit and summarized it for the NSB lawyers to read and then post his thoughts as theirs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comm...o_dismiss_top/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comm...w_and_a_big_l/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comm...iss_top_ranks/


https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comm...trust_lawsuit/

3) Writes a bunch of crap he made up.... even though what he got was public information


4) Why you mad? It is what it is, he hates Haymon because you didn't bother how to figure out how reddit works?

He's also the guy that said JakeNDaBox was an employee of PBC and boxing scene is corrupt. Jake set the record straight and the guy never apologized. His last post about PBC financials was wrong. If you read towards the bottom of the post he actually admitted being wrong. He also said TR had a strong case against PBC. The judge threw out most of the case and told them to refile. When he made that post he left out how the judge admonished TR. He also didn't mention how the judge moved forward with the case grudgingly. The post that let me know he's a Haymon hater is when he said ESPN FNF was better than PBC on ESPN. C'mon, even Atlas used to complain about the fights on FNF.

[about.thousands]

I have no idea how reddit works, but I bet if you search that kids username and look for prior posts, or even posts on other boxing websites/forums you'll find a lot of anti-Haymon stuff. No one invests that much time into Haymon's plans and finances.

Just do it. The guy doesn't like him period and wants to see him fail. So he writes up a bunch of crap that he wishes would happen and passes it off as fact.

https://www.reddit.com/user/jimwilson128

[IMDAZED]

The person who posted on reddit supposedly posted in this thread. So assuming he reads this, let's be real:

You have no idea how much each fund allocates to PBC.

You have no idea how much money is being used for PBC.

You have no idea if what their intent is.

You also have to be out of your mind if you think PBC spent $400m last year.

Finally, it should be noted that PBC got at least $425m and possibly more to bleed through.

As he laid out his plan, which would include not only NBC but other broadly distributed networks, it became clear that Haymon’s company might have to bleed upward of $100 million — and perhaps two or three times that much — as it built a brand and an audience, a proof-of-concept phase that would then enable him to cash in on the rights fees that continue to trend upward across sports.

Caldwell was there to show NBC that Haymon Boxing had the wherewithal to not only launch the PBC, but sustain

The March 7 series debut, featuring Keith Thurman and Robert Guerrero, attracted more than 4 million viewers to NBC.
Photo by: Suzanne Teresa it, with the pledge of upward of $425 million from a $40 billion fund that he co-managed for Waddell & Reed, the same fund that had invested about $1.5 billion in Formula One.

[about.thousands]

You owe me an apology. I won't hold my breath.

JakeNDaBox is still waiting on his apology from you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/3mez8o/boxingscenecoms_managing_editor_jake_donovan/cvh5pl3

I do not work for PBC, for the record. Steve Farhood normally covers PBC on NBC shows. He fell ill midweek and unable to make the trip and asked me to fill in on short notice, since he knew I only live 2 1/2 hrs from Birmingham and was already in town to originally cover the show for BoxingScene.com (my full-time employer). I provided pre-fight coverage for Top Rank's UniMas card which ran that same night. The following morning, I covered Kazuto Ioka's title defense via TV (TyC Sports). You want to question my ethics, that's your right to do so. Would greatly appreciate you not making stuff up and then attempting to publicly pass it off as fact. Thank you.

[IMDAZED]

JakeNDaBox is still waiting on his apology from you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comm...onovan/cvh5pl3

I do not work for PBC, for the record. Steve Farhood normally covers PBC on NBC shows. He fell ill midweek and unable to make the trip and asked me to fill in on short notice, since he knew I only live 2 1/2 hrs from Birmingham and was already in town to originally cover the show for BoxingScene.com (my full-time employer). I provided pre-fight coverage for Top Rank's UniMas card which ran that same night. The following morning, I covered Kazuto Ioka's title defense via TV (TyC Sports). You want to question my ethics, that's your right to do so. Would greatly appreciate you not making stuff up and then attempting to publicly pass it off as fact. Thank you.

SMDH. Well that explains a lot.

[OnePunch]

Not questioning the accuracy but is your contact suggesting Haymon spent over $130 mil the last qtr of 2015. Does this seem plausible given the fights he put on?

G4s arent cheap lol........