ducks

[sonnyboyx2]

Firstly, congratulations on spoiling the peace once again.. My boxing knowledge isn't quite on the level of the industrial unit that harbors your 'fight collection'
But you should know by now that it spoils your dinner every time you tangle with me, so i'll give you a few facts to start off your indigestion..

Why you have to show yourself up, by coming out with the above untruth's is beyond me.. Sonny Liston didn't retire until 1970, and in 1968, Foster was on a run of 20 straight wins including KO's over Thad Spencer and Cleveland Williams.. Both fighters were from Liston's era, and Foster wanted to add Liston's name to that list, so he shouted for the fight to happen but Liston at this time, made himself unavailable and this was at least a year prior to his fight with Leotis Martin, which displays 2 gross exaggerations on your behalf..
Ok, at that stage of his career you can say, Liston had nothing to prove and could fight whoever he wants; so in that respect it wasn't a 'duck', more of a 'prefer not to,' shall we say?

When Mac couldn't get to Liston, Williams was brought in for a second time, and was KO'd once again..
As for Liston being on 'the verge of retirement,' he was having a bloody field-day, handily winning 7 in a row and a sturdy 'gatekeeper' for the division in 1968..
You certainly can't blame Foster for wanting him on his resume, can you?

who is spoiling the peace?... i am queerying your allegations.. i also have no industrial unit, i use my attic

[mickey malone]

where is the evidence of your claiming?... please produce a link

Mac Foster beat an old "Shot" Cleveland Williams twice in 1969 when Williams was nearly 37yrs old and was fighting with a couple of bullets lodged in his body.. He then got a fight with Jerry Quarry and was destroyed in 6rds.. i can never recall Sonny Liston being mooted as an opponent for Foster and i cannot accept that Liston would "DUCK" anyone.. its also widely accepted that Liston was in his early 40s by the time Leotis Martin KOd him... Mac Foster is vastly overated on this forum as being some kind of Sonny Liston incarnated.. yet the truth about Foster is that he virtually never fought outside his beloved California and the first time he ventured away from home he got destroyed in devastating fashion... Foster was similar to Peter"hurricane" McNeeley in that he built up an undefeated record in his hometown fighting cans and lost each time he fought an opponent rated above Class C

You've changed your tune.. According to your 1st post, he hadn't even made his pro debut, and i know virtually nil about boxing.. This was b4 we'd even discussed my allegations, which shows a complete lack of diplomacy and is indeed a vain attempt at spoiling the peace..
Anyway, here's a couple of links, which i've been unlucky with, because they wouldn't download on my machine, so i hope you have better luck in checking them out..


According to boxrec.com and this interview from last year: http://www.ringsidereport.com/Kurtz3292006.htm and http://www.ringsidereport.com/Kurtz3302006.htm (Mac Foster interview)

Here's the most interesting part:

Quote:
JK: Everyone has heard the rumor about the time you knocked Liston out in sparring. How accurate is that and can you tell us about it?

Let me tell you the story and I have never told this to anyone before. I was sparring with Sonny and we were going at it pretty good. I wanted to fight him hard because I knew if I could box with him and handle Sonny's power I might be able to go pretty far in this sport. Sonny knew I could punch so he fought me hard as well. Then I hit Sonny clean with a hard jab and I could tell he was hurt by it. He staggered to the ropes. I backed off, because we were only sparring, but my corner kept telling me to go after him. I always listened to the people around me so I did. Sonny still had his gloves up while he was against the ropes. Eventually, I threw a hook that caught him square on the chin and he was out. He fell to the canvas and he was asleep. I was one of the guys who helped stand him back up on his feet. When Sonny started coming to he said "I got hit with a good punch, it happens." He walked around for like fifteen minutes to gather his senses and he wanted to keep sparring. Dick Saddler (Liston's trainer) kept telling Sonny to take it easy and to not fight too hard. It wasn't the same after that. The next day I came back and Saddler, once again, kept telling Sonny to take it easy, but Sonny wanted to fight harder. Saddler insisted on taking it easy while we sparred and that wasn't what we wanted to do so we didn't spar after that.

[sonnyboyx2]

You've changed your tune.. According to your 1st post, he hadn't even made his pro debut, and i know virtually nil about boxing.. This was b4 we'd even discussed my allegations, which shows a complete lack of diplomacy and is indeed a vain attempt at spoiling the peace..
Anyway, here's a couple of links, which i've been unlucky with, because they wouldn't download on my machine, so i hope you have better luck in checking them out..


According to boxrec.com and this interview from last year: http://www.ringsidereport.com/Kurtz3292006.htm and http://www.ringsidereport.com/Kurtz3302006.htm (Mac Foster interview)

Here's the most interesting part:

Quote:
JK: Everyone has heard the rumor about the time you knocked Liston out in sparring. How accurate is that and can you tell us about it?

Let me tell you the story and I have never told this to anyone before. I was sparring with Sonny and we were going at it pretty good. I wanted to fight him hard because I knew if I could box with him and handle Sonny's power I might be able to go pretty far in this sport. Sonny knew I could punch so he fought me hard as well. Then I hit Sonny clean with a hard jab and I could tell he was hurt by it. He staggered to the ropes. I backed off, because we were only sparring, but my corner kept telling me to go after him. I always listened to the people around me so I did. Sonny still had his gloves up while he was against the ropes. Eventually, I threw a hook that caught him square on the chin and he was out. He fell to the canvas and he was asleep. I was one of the guys who helped stand him back up on his feet. When Sonny started coming to he said "I got hit with a good punch, it happens." He walked around for like fifteen minutes to gather his senses and he wanted to keep sparring. Dick Saddler (Liston's trainer) kept telling Sonny to take it easy and to not fight too hard. It wasn't the same after that. The next day I came back and Saddler, once again, kept telling Sonny to take it easy, but Sonny wanted to fight harder. Saddler insisted on taking it easy while we sparred and that wasn't what we wanted to do so we didn't spar after that.

i said Foster had not made his pro debut when Liston was on the "VERGE" of retirement.. so get your facts right.

those links wont load up

who is JK and who is he talking too

[mickey malone]

i said Foster had not made his pro debut when Liston was on the "VERGE" of retirement.. so get your facts right.

those links wont load up

who is JK and who is he talking too

Well i wouldn't say 4 years and 16 fights was on the VERGE of retirement, but i guess that's just where you and i differ..

JK is 'someone' Kurtz, who is conducting the interview for boxrec, maybe Henry (hhascup) might know him?
The person being interviewed is 65 year old Mac Foster..

[Schmerzen]

liston had nothing to proof, they didnt give him a title-fight anymore anyway, he could fight who ever he wanted.
if the rumours are right, then he was a drug addict in the late stage of his career.
stop the myth liston ducking foster, foster wouldnt make it to round 3 against prime liston.

[donkim]

Just ignore Malone.This guy will go to great lengths in discrediting truly great fighters.He is nothing more than a blind hater.

[mickey malone]

Firstly, congratulations on spoiling the peace once again.. My boxing knowledge isn't quite on the level of the industrial unit that harbors your 'fight collection'
But you should know by now that it spoils your dinner every time you tangle with me, so i'll give you a few facts to start off your indigestion..

Why you have to show yourself up, by coming out with the above untruth's is beyond me.. Sonny Liston didn't retire until 1970, and in 1968, Foster was on a run of 20 straight wins including KO's over Thad Spencer and Cleveland Williams.. Both fighters were from Liston's era, and Foster wanted to add Liston's name to that list, so he shouted for the fight to happen but Liston at this time, made himself unavailable and this was at least a year prior to his fight with Leotis Martin, which displays 2 gross exaggerations on your behalf..
Ok, at that stage of his career you can say, Liston had nothing to prove and could fight whoever he wants; so in that respect it wasn't a 'duck', more of a 'prefer not to,' shall we say?

When Mac couldn't get to Liston, Williams was brought in for a second time, and was KO'd once again..
As for Liston being on 'the verge of retirement,' he was having a bloody field-day, handily winning 7 in a row and a sturdy 'gatekeeper' for the division in 1968..
You certainly can't blame Foster for wanting him on his resume, can you?

Quote: T3dBundy; liston had nothing to proof, they didnt give him a title-fight anymore anyway, he could fight who ever he wanted.
if the rumours are right, then he was a drug addict in the late stage of his career.
stop the myth liston ducking foster, foster wouldnt make it to round 3 against prime liston.

I know..

So the redK gang are all in agreement , this never happened?....

I can live with that..

[frankenfrank]

why holmes never fought foreman , ali when he was prime , lyle , frazier ?
looks like he was very much protected as a prospect/contender.
later his level of opposition was also low and he lost his title to a lightheavyweight , nonetheless .
even if he won one or two of his spinks encounters by a 1-2 points margin it is still a big shame and a reason to discredit him in p4p terms.
i think tyson would have always stopped him inside 12 , maybe just later than 3 if holmes had been prime.

[frankenfrank]

Larry Holmes ducked Greg Page in '83
Michael Spinks ducked Tony Tucker in '87 to take a more meaningful fight in Gerry Cooney.
James Toney was scared to fight Julian Jackson in '92, instead of unifying the belts, he moved up to 168 to faced Iran Barkley.

Spinks got a good reason for it : much more money in fighting Cooney , I learned
it in one of my threads i think.
And Toney moved up in weight not because he was afraid of Jackson , it was because he was fat and could not maintain his weight as was proven so many times throughout his career even at higher weights.

[flyest1]

Stevie Johnston ducked Shane Mosley bigtime in 99. That fight was perfectly setup and everything.

Tapia and Romero ducked Mark "2 Sharp" Johnson