Huh?

[StarshipTrooper]

Ill say nothing about the politics of who gets a crack at the gold rings... but regarding the evolution of the sport, Ray Corso, among others have pointed out that "the pro style has become very similar, albeit identical in most respects, to the amateur style. you watch fighters come up and fight you don't see the variety of fighting distances, styles, footwork, etc that used to make the pros a different sport.

For example, how many guys can fight inside? counterpunch effectively? You see more and more a game of tag, tit for tat, everything from the outside based on moving back and fourth, no angles to speak of...

So guys coming up from the Ammys tend to be more prepared to fight in the pros.

Strictly speaking as a martial artist I can tell you Starship that subtlety is the first to go when it comes to a collapsing skill set. It is always easier to teach people to be tough and take punches and throw punches, than it is to teach people to move 1/4th of an inch off center and sink their weight an inch or two...and the guys who knew how to do those subtletys start to dissappear, eventually leaving only the crude reminants of an art that was based on scientific principles and efficient movement.

So we have this story to illustrate this point: muestro bimba was an old Capoera master and he lived in dangerous times when lots of young lions roamed the streets of San Palo Brazil...sure enough a young lion asks him to "play" and one of the starting movements is to cartwheel into the circle where the feet rise up straight to the head area of the other guy who steps and does likewise, or some other movement...Well mr young lion suddenly whips into his Rodia movement his legs bent forwards in an effort to catch mastreo Bimba's head before the master can start his own movement....Bimba seeing this folds his body down into a front roll into young lion, so that by compacting his body into a ball, through efficiency he actually gets there first, where upon he extends his legs and his toe into young lion's mouth breaking off a few teeth.

Young lion looks up dazed and asks the master "what was that Maestro?" Where upon Maestro Bimba calmly states "that my son, was my big toe."

And there you have an example of the archetypical struggle between the need to overpower and the use of efficiency in the combat arts. I think this parable could be used for boxing as well, when we see someone, rarely these days, who really understands the technical tools of the trade, and that a boxing match is more than a back and fourth of who can punch the most, and the hardest.

That's a case of the deterioration of the pro game that I was talking about. The only way someone with ten pro fights under his belt could ever possibly be considered among the best in the world at that point in his career is if the quality of pro boxing has deteriorated to it's lowest level ever.

[The Old LefHook]

I would bet on an angry Angus McKaskill in his first fight.

[billeau2]

That's a case of the deterioration of the pro game that I was talking about. The only way someone with ten pro fights under his belt could ever possibly be considered among the best in the world at that point in his career is if the quality of pro boxing has deteriorated to it's lowest level ever.

A lot of people, partial to this section in fact, feel similar I suspect. I do. I am willing to look at the new fighters and have an open mind, and occasionally we see a guy who has some skills that were developed from a real residency in the sport, and not a quick "tudalo your a boxer now!" Tyson Fury for example was taught how to move in a ring... but you just do not see the range of skills that great fighters often possess in the past.

[ShoulderRoll]

Lomachenko is a special fighter.

[Bundana]

How in the hell does two supposed top p4p fighters get ranked like that when neither fighter has even cracked 20 fights????? And one of them is 37 ffs!!!!! If this is the new norm in boxing, then the sport has truly become a laughable joke and is indeed suffering it's death gasps.

Where does this anger come from? Why is it such a disgrace if, from time to time, exceptional fighters are able to rise to the top before they have had 20 pro fights? How can this be proof that boxing has gone to ****?

If boxing is indeed "suffering it's death gasps"... how come we today see more boxers, engaging in more fights, in more countries, that at any other time in the past 50-60 years?

[StarshipTrooper]

Where does this anger come from? Why is it such a disgrace if, from time to time, exceptional fighters are able to rise to the top before they have had 20 pro fights? How can this be proof that boxing has gone to ****?

If boxing is indeed "suffering it's death gasps"... how come we today see more boxers, engaging in more fights, in more countries, that at any other time in the past 50-60 years?

Because third world ****holes are dumping inferior fighters into the talent pool.

[OctoberRed]

Because third world ****holes are dumping inferior fighters into the talent pool.

No, because most of the countries, especially Eastern Euro, were blocked off from fighting elsewhere or leaving. Plus the US had zero interest in white Eastern Euro fighters until GGG came along. Most Eastern Euros went pro in Germany or other countries.

[Bundana]

[HTML][HTML]

Because third world ****holes are dumping inferior fighters into the talent pool.

Ok... but you still haven't addressed, what this is all about:

Why is the fact that someone can rise to the absolute top of his division in less than 20 fights so objectionable to you? What has that got to do with the overall state of boxing?

Isn't it possible, that someone like Lomachenko simply is extraordinarily talented, and has got to where he is today because of that - and not necessarily because he's lucky to come along in an era, that is at an all-time low?

[StarshipTrooper]

Ok... but you still haven't addressed, what this is all about:

Why is the fact that someone can rise to the absolute top of his division in less than 20 fights so objectionable to you? What has that got to do with the overall state of boxing?

Because it speaks to a lack of quality in the sport. Whether through talent or skill development. No quality champion should ever lose to a dude with that few professional fights.

Isn't it possible, that someone like Lomachenko simply is extraordinarily talented, and has got to where he is today because of that - and not necessarily because he's lucky to come along in an era, that is at an all-time low?

No it is not. Someone like, say, Ray Leonard had more talent in his left nut sack than Loma and Rigo had combined. Even he had 25 pro fights under his belt before challenging for a world title.

[StarshipTrooper]

No, because most of the countries, especially Eastern Euro, were blocked off from fighting elsewhere or leaving. Plus the US had zero interest in white Eastern Euro fighters until GGG came along. Most Eastern Euros went pro in Germany or other countries.

Sorry pal: You aren't turning this into a soapbox for Eastern European nationalism. Take that **** elsewhere.