Top 5 P4P Ranking

[QueensburyRules]

- -Modern boxing is 400 yrs old. Modern ball sports have 300 more yrs to catch up to where boxing is in development.

Sheesh, what grade are you people in?

[DeeMoney]

LOL, so you admit we have footage of him being dragged out of the ring against Joey Maxim, and the disaster against Tiger Jones... among other travesties. All of the footage shows me he had lots of charisma and entertainment value. But not that he was the greatest ever. Tunney, Monzon, Mayweather, Rigo, Vlad Klitchko, Angott: all fighers that could be methodical, even boring. But they won. Often at the expense of much more thrilling opponents. Many/All of those fighters weren't fully appreciated in their own time due to their style of fighting. Now consider Aaron Pryor....

If you wanna talk about footage that matters, and not trying to connect dots, we have footage of a faded Eder Jofre beating the SECOND BEST Bantamweight of all time TWICE. And returning at the relatively ancient age of 37 to beat Legra and then serve as the man to finally drop the curtain on Saldivar's epic title reign (by KO, no less).

Please look at the tape and tell me ONE thing Jofre did wrong, or one flaw in his package. I don't think there's a fighter who's laced up gloves at 122 lbs or below who could beat him.

Ive always felt Jofre to be the best bantam, and have nobody better at a lower weight (and I am an openly biased huge Finito fan).

I actually have Jofre ranked ahead of Pep and any feather on a P4P too.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Ive always felt Jofre to be the best bantam, and have nobody better at a lower weight (and I am an openly biased huge Finito fan).

I actually have Jofre ranked ahead of Pep and any feather on a P4P too.

yeah, i lik pep better P4P (for severalreasons) but they're my highest ranking "little men".

but jofre is harder to appreciate than men of Jones and Ali's ilk. alot of times these lists favor the fighters who are most entertaining.

[SheenLantern]

LOL, my post went right over your head.


Look at the MLB with Barry Bonds, do you think he could be an ATg if he were a contemporary of Ted Williams? LMAO. Obviously not. Mike Trout, definitely. Bryce Harper? Yup. But Barry Bonds!? HELL NO.

Look at the NFL. I don't need to bring up Johnny Unitas. Hell, I can look to the 80's. Montana's arm had more in common with cooked linguine than an arm like Aaron Rogers'. Too bad for Joe Cool there's no "P4P" in pro-football. yeah, yeah, Montana will always be mentioned up there w/ Brady, but everyone knows he could never lead teams like Rogers or Roethlisberger have in the past 15-20 years. They're physical dimensions and abilities account for too much.

Don't get me wrong. I fully appreciate that PEDs have changed things. But it's more complicated than that. And it is kinda funny that you showed footage from Olympic Gymnastics, while the footage available for Boxing is far more extensive, and proves there's been quite a degree of regression. Other sports have evolved, but Boxing hasn't. Not exactly. (Probably we should be thankful that it even still exists.)


Look at footage of Willie Pep. Not only did he invent pure-boxing, he perfected it. There hasn't been as good a pure Boxer since. Countless concessions have been made making it conducive for him to be displaed, but it hasn't happened. Whitaker comes closest, but he definitely doesn't out-do Pep. It's probable that he really wouldn't have gone far had he come of age in Pep's era. Really, I think Locche had the most potential to rival Pep. But he was adamant that he was an entertainer rather than a fighter; and he didn't wanna put in the work the way Mayweather and Whitaker did. But when they came, they came decades later.

How about Louis? What he did was amazing, but he wasn't quite as good as Pep. Then you consider we have more and more heavyweights than ever. But can you show any w/ the perfection of Louis? Fury, of course, has taken defensive Boxing to a whole new level in that division. He's kinda like the Heavyweight division's Pep. But in a division where fighters are known for their offense, why can't you provide me any gifs showcasing the an advancement in offensive technique?


I will say Lomachenko is one for the ages. The dude is one of the very best. I'd pick him over a lot of the Golden Calves of Boxing. And there are lots of old timers that make me cringe: I don't get the Fitzsimmons Fancy of the Gans Groupies. It takes careful investigation and a mind that's both open and thinks critically.

Your nostalgia is endearing, but whatever you're seeing in footage of old fighters I'm not. You can rank fighters relative to their time, but don't try to tell me that fighters from an era when 180lbs passed for a heavyweight and when most boxers didn't even box full-time could possibly compete with modern fighters.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Your nostalgia is endearing, but whatever you're seeing in footage of old fighters I'm not. You can rank fighters relative to their time, but don't try to tell me that fighters from an era when 180lbs passed for a heavyweight and when most boxers didn't even box full-time could possibly compete with modern fighters.

Show men a more technically sound fighter than Eder Jofre.

Show me a Lw, not named Duran, more completed and crafty than ortiz.

Show me a pure-boxer more skilled than Pep.


Come on, you were the one who posted a gif of Olympic Gymnasts. This is a Boxing forum. Show me the footage.

Show me a Middleweight that beats Monzon.

Show me a Light Heavyweight that beats Conn.

Show me any fighter better than Duran.


I will admit that Lomachenko and Fury and looking to become some of the best every. You can't name a Heavyweight that beats Fury. And P4P Lomachenko is perfection.

But Fury is a genetic freak. And how would Lomachenko deal w/ Armstrong's nut-shots and headbutts for 15 rounds?

There's hours of footage on YouTube... please, present it to us. We're dying to see.

[chrisJS]

If you wanna talk about footage that matters, and not trying to connect dots, we have footage of a faded Eder Jofre beating the SECOND BEST Bantamweight of all time TWICE. And returning at the relatively ancient age of 37 to beat Legra and then serve as the man to finally drop the curtain on Saldivar's epic title reign (by KO, no less).

Please look at the tape and tell me ONE thing Jofre did wrong, or one flaw in his package. I don't think there's a fighter who's laced up gloves at 122 lbs or below who could beat him.

Jofre was special. He's a serious, serious contender for the most complete and best all-around fighter captured on film IMO.

Some tidbits though. He did not defeat the second best bantamweight ever. If you are referring to Harada then those scores are subjective. I had him shading the first fight by a round or two and the second fight either by Harada by a point or even (because of Harada's deduction). Jofre was faded and worn out as a bantamweight by then though I agree. Too much struggling with the weight and being 30 at that time for 118 was old. The footage of bantamweight Jofre is incredible. Just a master that could do it all, when he wanted and how he wanted.

He didn't end Saldivar's reign. Saldivar's reign was ended by Shibata. He won a tune-up vs. Crawford and came in as the challenger (vs. Jofre). The win over Legra at 37 is the stuff of legend though. Legra doesn't get the credit he deserved. I recently posted to youtube the Famechon "loss" which was bogus (and I posted the Jofre fight which was hard fought but a clear Jofre win IMO).

I guess the only "flaw" of Jofre was that he sometimes started slow but that's mainly because he would study the guy, time him, then master him.

I love Jofre. I posted a huge article close to 20,000 words which I interviewed him and his son for. It will be featured soon on his official website and social media.

[QueensburyRules]

Jofre was special. He's a serious, serious contender for the most complete and best all-around fighter captured on film IMO.

Some tidbits though. He did not defeat the second best bantamweight ever. If you are referring to Harada then those scores are subjective. I had him shading the first fight by a round or two and the second fight either by Harada by a point or even (because of Harada's deduction). Jofre was faded and worn out as a bantamweight by then though I agree. Too much struggling with the weight and being 30 at that time for 118 was old. The footage of bantamweight Jofre is incredible. Just a master that could do it all, when he wanted and how he wanted.

He didn't end Saldivar's reign. Saldivar's reign was ended by Shibata. He won a tune-up vs. Crawford and came in as the challenger (vs. Jofre). The win over Legra at 37 is the stuff of legend though. Legra doesn't get the credit he deserved. I recently posted to youtube the Famechon "loss" which was bogus (and I posted the Jofre fight which was hard fought but a clear Jofre win IMO).

I guess the only "flaw" of Jofre was that he sometimes started slow but that's mainly because he would study the guy, time him, then master him.

I love Jofre. I posted a huge article close to 20,000 words which I interviewed him and his son for. It will be featured soon on his official website and social media.

- -Ace work Chris. The Golden Bantam was considered to be on p4p par with Robinson himself in their shared era.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Jofre was special. He's a serious, serious contender for the most complete and best all-around fighter captured on film IMO.

Some tidbits though. He did not defeat the second best bantamweight ever. If you are referring to Harada then those scores are subjective. I had him shading the first fight by a round or two and the second fight either by Harada by a point or even (because of Harada's deduction). Jofre was faded and worn out as a bantamweight by then though I agree. Too much struggling with the weight and being 30 at that time for 118 was old. The footage of bantamweight Jofre is incredible. Just a master that could do it all, when he wanted and how he wanted.

He didn't end Saldivar's reign. Saldivar's reign was ended by Shibata. He won a tune-up vs. Crawford and came in as the challenger (vs. Jofre). The win over Legra at 37 is the stuff of legend though. Legra doesn't get the credit he deserved. I recently posted to youtube the Famechon "loss" which was bogus (and I posted the Jofre fight which was hard fought but a clear Jofre win IMO).

I guess the only "flaw" of Jofre was that he sometimes started slow but that's mainly because he would study the guy, time him, then master him.

I love Jofre. I posted a huge article close to 20,000 words which I interviewed him and his son for. It will be featured soon on his official website and social media.

Great stuff!!!

[chrisJS]

Great stuff!!!

- -Ace work Chris. The Golden Bantam was considered to be on p4p par with Robinson himself in their shared era.

What I'll add is that can you imagine if Jofre had the benefit of prior day weigh-ins AND a super bantamweight class? He'd probably not have had to starve himself making 118 at that age. He'd either have had the energy to finish off Harada when he had him hurt or win a few rounds more so it wouldn't fall into the judges hands in Japan.

Those "draws" he had too. He led them all but a South American rule used to be you needed to lead by at least four points on at least two cards to win otherwise it was a draw so his real record would be 76-2 with the two losses being to Harada in Japan against massive weight struggles and considered razor thin fights that could go either way.

I think with day prior weigh-ins and a 122 class Jofre likely becomes the GOAT at 122 (in addition to 118) and probably runs a record close to 90-0 and retires.

The type of casual fans in the main forum that jock the current fighters like Mayweather, Canelo with the "They beat x champions and hall of famers" may not understand this either but these days there are 5 titles per division and extra divisions so essentially in the weights Jofre competed with today's advantages 25 champions to fight from flyweight to featherweight whereas back then there were only 3. 22 more "champions" today and with all the bouncing around in weight, stalling out matches etc; you spawn a bunch of "hall of famers" that wouldn't get a sniff back then. Jose Medel being an example. His run from 60-66 he beat everyone he faced apart from Jofre. He beat Toluco Lopez, Walter McGowan, Jesus Pimentel, Manuel Barrios, Edmundo Esparza, Sadoa Yoaita and of course the great Harada in that run yet his only two losses in title fights - a KO by Jofre and a razor thin decision to Harada in Japan. In this day and age that resume would have multiple titles on top and he'd be considered a modern legend. He was just a top contender back then.

A guy like Bernardo Caballero would clean up too. Then there's the featherweights like Legra who'd have more title defenses, Famechon, Winstone etc; guys that were denied by such a legendary fighter as Vicente Saldivar. You can watch the footage of these guys and it holds up. They were brilliant and would greatly benefit from an extra 8 or 9 titles to chose from instead of having to compete with legit all-time greats every title shot.

[Archunde512]

My top 5 are. Tyson in his prime. Salvador sanchez,alexis arguellio,marciano,and right now its saul “canelo” alvarez