Comments Thread For: Sugar Ray Leonard Gives Analysis of Errol Spence-Mikey Garcia

[Disturbed]

Glad to see Sugar Ray still enjoying boxing, giving his thoughts and all that. I know that for many, boxing is just business / work, but I love to see retired fighters offer their opinion on fights/fighters, talking boxing and still having that interest in the sport

[Johnny2x2x]

Overall across the board of world boxing and amateur boxing they are better today, better technique better nutrition better conditioning, with the elites there is not much between them across many eras from the 40s on, the funny part about it all is the old greats are only seen in prime from memory's of their best fights, the thing is they had other fights that were not so impressive and if that version turned up with a modern greats on his best night you know whats gunna happen.

Loads of old school trainers know fck all about scientific conditioning, they made their name from the few greats that walking into their gym, a great can walk into any gym and be great.

100% true!

I don’t know why people think boxing is any different than any other sport. Basketball players, football players, soccer player, and track and field athletes are all much better today than they were just 20 years ago. Sports evolve because knowledge evolves, nutrition revolves, and training evolves. Boxing evolves the same way.

Today’s boxers are faster, stronger, better conditioned, more prepared, and just plain better than boxers from older eras.

And being in the era of instant video and shared training helps too. Guys can see what other guys are doing immediately. And every fight gets dissected so no fighter is surprising another any more.

Boxing is no different than other sports, today’s fighters are better.

[aboutfkntime]

Jacobs is not a modern great lol , Manny Floyd Jones Hopkins Holyfield Toney Whitaker Chavez etc could all fight and possibly beat any other great throughout history.

The Best of the eras not the average WCs.

I dont know what your looking at but the modern fighter has much better technique and is punching harder for longer, every single sport in the world is a mile ahead of itself from 20-40 yrs ago.

if those guys are sooooo much better, now.....

then how come they could only " possibly " beat fighters of the past?..... they should blitz them easy, right.....?

that doesn't make sense

I am not referring to advanced training / science

I am referring to the overall level of a particular division

on a whole..... divisions contained more quality fighters, and those guys were more well-rounded than a lot of the gym-rats today..... also, there was only one ladder..... so guys had to fight more quality opposition..... not always, just as a whole

heard the expression " steroids don't teach you how to fight "?

nobody is supporting steroids, just the opposite..... but steroids help with overall athletic performance, not with technique, instincts, strategy, experience..... or any of those things

and neither do strength and conditioning coaches

not saying they don't add value..... just that they do not develop your level as a fighter..... trainers/environment (experience) do

I think the old-school guys are dying off, and are being replaced by the plethora of mitt-men who have managed to find work in the plethora of "gyms" that exist in this day and age

but yea, you made some good points..... green'd

[aboutfkntime]

Leonard was a straight up killer

there is no current welterweight that I would favor over him

the best of the modern generation are Mayweather and Pacquiao

if prime..... I would only give one of those guys a chance, but would still slightly favor Leonard

Leonard is better than Hearns..... but because of styles, I would give Mayweather/Pacquiao very little chance of beating Hearns

those dudes were REAL

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Nice interview!

Yeah, Duran really exposed Hagler in their fight, giving Ray the blueprint. Hagler was a beat but mentally, Leonard and Duran were stronger.

[Roadblock]

if those guys are sooooo much better, now.....

then how come they could only " possibly " beat fighters of the past?..... they should blitz them easy, right.....?

that doesn't make sense

I am not referring to advanced training / science

I am referring to the overall level of a particular division

on a whole..... divisions contained more quality fighters, and those guys were more well-rounded than a lot of the gym-rats today..... also, there was only one ladder..... so guys had to fight more quality opposition..... not always, just as a whole

heard the expression " steroids don't teach you how to fight "?

nobody is supporting steroids, just the opposite..... but steroids help with overall athletic performance, not with technique, instincts, strategy, experience..... or any of those things

and neither do strength and conditioning coaches

not saying they don't add value..... just that they do not develop your level as a fighter..... trainers/environment (experience) do

I think the old-school guys are dying off, and are being replaced by the plethora of mitt-men who have managed to find work in the plethora of "gyms" that exist in this day and age

but yea, you made some good points..... green'd

Im not going to spend the time going over it all, but the average is better today, the elite across all eras have very little between them, forget them as names and just divide boxing ability by 10, meaning the elites are in the first group then keeps going down by 10 until the bottom are 4 rounders , rough I know but it shows how it is.

Elite fighters as with all elite athletes are gifted people thats the first caveat because you cannot make whats not there, an old saying expresses this " you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear " .

You cannot improve the very best by much because they are already there on natural side of the coin, you can only fine tune them, but you can wreck them easy with bad conditioning etc , but their best ability is quite close among the other very best, mere milliseconds.

Now after saying that the average fighter has jumped in quality by a huge amount as boxing has evolved, simply because the average has so much room for that improvement it happens like a mass movement of improved standards.

I hope you understand what Im trying to say Im not try to be argumentative or bias, Im not thinking of any single fighter or famous name just putting them all into category's like they were horses.

[aboutfkntime]

Im not going to spend the time going over it all, but the average is better today, the elite across all eras have very little between them, forget them as names and just divide boxing ability by 10, meaning the elites are in the first group then keeps going down by 10 until the bottom are 4 rounders , rough I know but it shows how it is.

Elite fighters as with all elite athletes are gifted people thats the first caveat because you cannot make whats not there, an old saying expresses this " you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear " .

You cannot improve the very best by much because they are already there on natural side of the coin, you can only fine tune them, but you can wreck them easy with bad conditioning etc , but their best ability is quite close among the other very best, mere milliseconds.

Now after saying that the average fighter has jumped in quality by a huge amount as boxing has evolved, simply because the average has so much room for that improvement it happens like a mass movement of improved standards.

I hope you understand what Im trying to say Im not try to be argumentative or bias, Im not thinking of any single fighter or famous name just putting them all into category's like they were horses.

you made some good points, but I think we will have to agree to disagree on that one

I think they were tougher fighters, in a tougher era..... with less options, and 15 round fights against stiffer competition

fair point about the elite fighters..... but if we remove guys like Mayweather and Pacquiao from this era, and remove Leonard and Hearns from that era..... the guys who remain in this era would struggle against the second tier from the 80's

meaning that there is little significant improvement like we see in other sports

but fair points, good post

[aboutfkntime]

Im not going to spend the time going over it all, but the average is better today, the elite across all eras have very little between them, forget them as names and just divide boxing ability by 10, meaning the elites are in the first group then keeps going down by 10 until the bottom are 4 rounders , rough I know but it shows how it is.

Elite fighters as with all elite athletes are gifted people thats the first caveat because you cannot make whats not there, an old saying expresses this " you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear " .

You cannot improve the very best by much because they are already there on natural side of the coin, you can only fine tune them, but you can wreck them easy with bad conditioning etc , but their best ability is quite close among the other very best, mere milliseconds.

Now after saying that the average fighter has jumped in quality by a huge amount as boxing has evolved, simply because the average has so much room for that improvement it happens like a mass movement of improved standards.

I hope you understand what Im trying to say Im not try to be argumentative or bias, Im not thinking of any single fighter or famous name just putting them all into category's like they were horses.

not wanting to make a deal about this, or anything.....

I agree with some of your points, and respect your opinion.....

but read today's bread-bag for a better example of what I am saying

https://www.boxingscene.com/daily-br...-lewis--133370

read about the MUCH better divisional depth in the first article about Hagler

read about the lack of understanding around clinching

and this.....

Bread’s Response: I don’t know if it will be good or bad that most of the top middleweights went to DAZN. But I do know there will be no excuse not to make top fights at 160. Let’s see what happens.

I think you’re tripping if you think any of those guys would smash Ezzard Charles. Ezzard Charles may be top 7 or 8 fighters ever. If he would have gotten a shot at the middleweight and lightheavyweight titles he would be even higher.

Boxing has NOT evolved in the way you think it has. It only has evolved as far as the size of heavyweights. There was heavyweights over 6’4 and 240 in every era but there are more today.

But in every other weight class there is no real evolution and the skill level has decreased greatly.

Infighting has regressed.

Stamina has regressed.

Slip and Slide style has decreased.

Fighting on an angle has decreased.

Jabbing has decreased.

Body punching has decreased.

I can go on forever, literally.

Look at the average size of each of the top fighters in each weight division. There is no difference. Charles is 6 ft even with a 73 inch reach. He’s taller that Jones and Stevenson and little shorter than Tarver. Charles actually put together one of the best heavyweight reigns in history with 9 solid title defenses. Also From 1942 to 1951 Charles was the 2nd best fighter in the world behind Ray Robinson. During that time he fought the toughest schedule in boxing for an elite fighter. Maybe the toughest schedule ever. Look at who he fought from 42-51.

The only thing more advanced in this era is youtube pad work and recovery. There are more methods to recover faster. But these fighters need it because they are counter productive. They lose 30lbs then they engage in contest of endurance where they take physical punishment. IF you really think about it, it’s backwards. Just look at Adonis Stevenson. I think he’s a heck of a fighter. But he has poor stamina on the other side of 6. Fighting a 15 round, all around stud like Charles would be murder on his gas tank. If you think Badou Jack’s well rounded style gave him fits, imagine a fighter who is levels above Jack. No offense to Jack I love him. But no one would ever say he’s in Ezzard Charles’s league.

You have lost your mind if you think the guys you named would smash Ezzard Charles. Roy Jones is on the level and I wouldn’t pick him to beat Charles 2 out of 3. You need to put some respect on Charles name.

that is what I was talking about.....

[soul_survivor]

The fight is not at all guaranteed and this site keeps bringing up articles trying to promote it. The earliest they MAY be able to make it is Feb according to the best possible reports. On top of all that, it once again means the top welterweights, almost all owned by PBC/Haymon will not be fighting each other again. To make matters worse, who the hell is Mikey Garcia? He is not the top lightweight on the planet, he has not been top of a division for years and has one, somewhat top level win in his comeback years.

Why does this fight matter?

[aboutfkntime]

The fight is not at all guaranteed and this site keeps bringing up articles trying to promote it. The earliest they MAY be able to make it is Feb according to the best possible reports. On top of all that, it once again means the top welterweights, almost all owned by PBC/Haymon will not be fighting each other again. To make matters worse, who the hell is Mikey Garcia? He is not the top lightweight on the planet, he has not been top of a division for years and has one, somewhat top level win in his comeback years.

Why does this fight matter?

I agree that you cannot definitively say that Garcia is the best lightweight, now that Loma has moved up..... but before then, he almost certainly was.....

I do not see anyone else beating him, and Loma may not beat him either

but they would need to fight in order to determine that for sure

Mikey is a serious badass, that is who he is

I agree with you 100% that fight is not as relevant as say, Spence/Crawford..... or Lomachenko/Garcia..... divisional supremacy is more relevant, for sure

but if he actually managed to beat Spence, which I admit is a big call..... that win would be relevant alright, no question

I am like you, fights like Brook/Golovkin, Khan/Canelo..... were not top-level fights at all..... but I can see why most punters seem to like them

GOOD post !