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Modernity is truly a relative term. In Philosophy "Modern philosophy" started with Emmanual Kant....Around the early to mid 1800's.
If we take Modern MMA that would probably be a transition that occurred when it became apparent that a fighter had to have elements of certain styles, and not a dominant style, to be succesful in the Octagon. We are talking a period of maybe 10-15 years in which a Gracie Jiu Jitsu man would have won the UFC, and then could not compete in the UFC!
Whenever we get new posters here, and/or alts... There always is such a rush to talk about modern fighters and such. Its ignorant and silly because boxing, like any other institution has periods of change. Many people imagine change where none exists, or attribute a lack of interest to be a trend when in fact, it is a darth of skills.
If one simply follows the heavyweight division and certain developments there is a clear concise development to boxing. No heavyweights from the eighties are not modern fighters compared to Dempsey! If one looks at Mike Tyson he used technical applications brought about through jack Dempsey.
Here is how I see the development of boxing in a very crude but manageable fashion...No its not all inclusive but it is a way not to use terms like a moron. I cringe because "Modern" risks becoming the new "evolution."
James Figg introduces a fencing vocabulary into fisticuffs. Fighting range is sword length, 3 feet out. A lot of emphasis on footwork, weight usually is on back leg until an attack is made, guard and hands are held with no turning of the hand, the fist acts as a piston, or as a hook depending. The action depends on a clearly defined idea of attack and defend where upon a man can parry, block, or slip a punch.
Gene Tunney works with James Corbett who is perhaps the last heavyweight to use technique exclusively from the Fig era. Gene is between the worlds as he will participate in a fight that is a watershed moment in the sport.
jacK Dempsey will apply a new approach against Tunney. Dempsey becomes a puncher through and through. Dempsey felt boxing was degenerating into empty hits with no force and observed many of his contemporaries, like Gans to focus on smaller movements, a closer fighting distance where punches are slipped more than parried, and where small body movements made with the shoulders and at the waist independent of the legs replace whole body movements used to dash in and out from sword length. In so doing this Dempsey focuses on punching, with specific hooks, a stepping lead that becomes a jab, and...in using the weight of stepping to hit (something he cites Gans as doing "so much so that during a Gans sparring session one can hear Joe's thudding feet" Dempsey).
BlackBurn and Louis usher in an approach to boxing where the punches are worked out carefully, the jab becomes prominant, with a turning movement. Punches are set up without a clear demarcation of offense and defense... We have the smaller movements of Dempsey and footwork is used to cut the ring off, to cover distances in the ring... Punch combinations are used as templates, combination punching does not have to depend on where the opponent reacts, pat combinations can be used, practiced and applied.
These three movements all created new building blocks in boxing. There are infinite variations on how tehnique can be applied using these theories. A great example is the Tunney Dempsey fight where one can see Tunney apply strategies characterstic of Corbett and even bare knuckle fighting, along with theories that Dempsey used in his approach.
The prominance of the jab and punching theory has not changed in any way since Blackburn that suggests that modern boxing was born at this time...I am citing individuals but obviously these individuals, gifted innovators that they are, were part of these theoretical changes.
So heres some proof: Tyson and Frazier, though very different in many respects, used an approach that Dempsey developed. Shoulder movements, head movements, and primarily entering the opponent with hooking type punches...coming in at an angle with the bob and weave.
Olympic style fighting, the Cubans, and most orthodox fighters today, use theories advocated and expressed by Louis. The jab sets up the punches, the body is kept upright, with weight slightly shifting... the fighter does not chase the opponent so much as anticipate movements and cut off the opponent to set up.
Now: I may be sketchy on some of my details here...Please add and subtract...But Louis' era started the modern era of boxing. There has not been any major shift in the technical approach of fighters since that time...as Ray often says.
If we take Modern MMA that would probably be a transition that occurred when it became apparent that a fighter had to have elements of certain styles, and not a dominant style, to be succesful in the Octagon. We are talking a period of maybe 10-15 years in which a Gracie Jiu Jitsu man would have won the UFC, and then could not compete in the UFC!
Whenever we get new posters here, and/or alts... There always is such a rush to talk about modern fighters and such. Its ignorant and silly because boxing, like any other institution has periods of change. Many people imagine change where none exists, or attribute a lack of interest to be a trend when in fact, it is a darth of skills.
If one simply follows the heavyweight division and certain developments there is a clear concise development to boxing. No heavyweights from the eighties are not modern fighters compared to Dempsey! If one looks at Mike Tyson he used technical applications brought about through jack Dempsey.
Here is how I see the development of boxing in a very crude but manageable fashion...No its not all inclusive but it is a way not to use terms like a moron. I cringe because "Modern" risks becoming the new "evolution."
James Figg introduces a fencing vocabulary into fisticuffs. Fighting range is sword length, 3 feet out. A lot of emphasis on footwork, weight usually is on back leg until an attack is made, guard and hands are held with no turning of the hand, the fist acts as a piston, or as a hook depending. The action depends on a clearly defined idea of attack and defend where upon a man can parry, block, or slip a punch.
Gene Tunney works with James Corbett who is perhaps the last heavyweight to use technique exclusively from the Fig era. Gene is between the worlds as he will participate in a fight that is a watershed moment in the sport.
jacK Dempsey will apply a new approach against Tunney. Dempsey becomes a puncher through and through. Dempsey felt boxing was degenerating into empty hits with no force and observed many of his contemporaries, like Gans to focus on smaller movements, a closer fighting distance where punches are slipped more than parried, and where small body movements made with the shoulders and at the waist independent of the legs replace whole body movements used to dash in and out from sword length. In so doing this Dempsey focuses on punching, with specific hooks, a stepping lead that becomes a jab, and...in using the weight of stepping to hit (something he cites Gans as doing "so much so that during a Gans sparring session one can hear Joe's thudding feet" Dempsey).
BlackBurn and Louis usher in an approach to boxing where the punches are worked out carefully, the jab becomes prominant, with a turning movement. Punches are set up without a clear demarcation of offense and defense... We have the smaller movements of Dempsey and footwork is used to cut the ring off, to cover distances in the ring... Punch combinations are used as templates, combination punching does not have to depend on where the opponent reacts, pat combinations can be used, practiced and applied.
These three movements all created new building blocks in boxing. There are infinite variations on how tehnique can be applied using these theories. A great example is the Tunney Dempsey fight where one can see Tunney apply strategies characterstic of Corbett and even bare knuckle fighting, along with theories that Dempsey used in his approach.
The prominance of the jab and punching theory has not changed in any way since Blackburn that suggests that modern boxing was born at this time...I am citing individuals but obviously these individuals, gifted innovators that they are, were part of these theoretical changes.
So heres some proof: Tyson and Frazier, though very different in many respects, used an approach that Dempsey developed. Shoulder movements, head movements, and primarily entering the opponent with hooking type punches...coming in at an angle with the bob and weave.
Olympic style fighting, the Cubans, and most orthodox fighters today, use theories advocated and expressed by Louis. The jab sets up the punches, the body is kept upright, with weight slightly shifting... the fighter does not chase the opponent so much as anticipate movements and cut off the opponent to set up.
Now: I may be sketchy on some of my details here...Please add and subtract...But Louis' era started the modern era of boxing. There has not been any major shift in the technical approach of fighters since that time...as Ray often says.
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