Erdei Vacates: Ding-Dong, the Lineage Argument is Dead

[Larry the boss]

[BattlingNelson]

In Alvarez's case, he has maintained his hold on the Ring title which is basically owned by his promoter; it's a foot in the division.

And is to be dismissed straight of the bat. His promotor has major Financial interests involved so it's hardly suprising that that a Company paper writes the story the Company wants to tell.

In Erdei's, he vacated, moved up, won another belt, and then opted to return. He wasn't forced to vacate, indicating an exit from the class and,

Precisely the same as Canelo albeit he moved Down and not up. And we do not know if Canelo actually do moves up to 160. He might as well moved to 168. Point being that nobody knows.

unlike Alvarez, there hasn't been a lip service about coming back to fight the top dog in class.

So this is the the telling blow. The above is the key keeping Canelo as lineal champ. "He says he wants to fight the no. 1 at 160'.

It's not inconsistent.

I don't know if Erdei gave 'lip service' to any german or hungarian outlet, and I suspect neither do you?

In any case, it's a very, very weak argument IMO. Saying that you have an 'intent to return' is enough. This opens a door for someone keeping a lineal title hostage for years and years. You would have a much stronger argument, if you said that the title has to be defended inside a certain timeframe say 12 or 18 months.

It's a different case. Alvarez also defended less than a year ago (even if it was Khan).

I wrote a lengthy piece on this last year actually as concerns 175: http://www.boxingscene.com/end-line-...dendum--109582

Feel free to recognize Ward per the above.

Differences:
Erdei moved up, Canelo Down
Canelo gave lip service, Erdei didn't (at least not known).

Cliff you know I respect you very much and I have thoroughly enjoyed your Work over the years. I think your argument here is weak and faulty though. It doesn't take away from my admiration of your other Work.

[crold1]

And is to be dismissed straight of the bat. His promotor has major Financial interests involved so it's hardly suprising that that a Company paper writes the story the Company wants to tell.


Precisely the same as Canelo albeit he moved Down and not up. And we do not know if Canelo actually do moves up to 160. He might as well moved to 168. Point being that nobody knows.


So this is the the telling blow. The above is the key keeping Canelo as lineal champ. "He says he wants to fight the no. 1 at 160'.

I don't know if Erdei gave 'lip service' to any german or hungarian outlet, and I suspect neither do you?

In any case, it's a very, very weak argument IMO. Saying that you have an 'intent to return' is enough. This opens a door for someone keeping a lineal title hostage for years and years. You would have a much stronger argument, if you said that the title has to be defended inside a certain timeframe say 12 or 18 months.


Differences:
Erdei moved up, Canelo Down
Canelo gave lip service, Erdei didn't (at least not known).

Cliff you know I respect you very much and I have thoroughly enjoyed your Work over the years. I think your argument here is weak and faulty though. It doesn't take away from my admiration of your other Work.

There was a key difference. Canelo gave up the WBC belt under pressure to make a mandatory; Erdei vacated without similar heat. He could easily have moved up for a fight and then decided. I tend to error on the side of protecting the lineage. If Alvarez hasn't returned to middleweight this year, trust me, it will be revisited.

And no need to preface disagreeing with me. It's all good.

[BattlingNelson]

There was a key difference. Canelo gave up the WBC belt under pressure to make a mandatory; Erdei vacated without similar heat. He could easily have moved up for a fight and then decided. I tend to error on the side of protecting the lineage. If Alvarez hasn't returned to middleweight this year, trust me, it will be revisited.

And no need to preface disagreeing with me. It's all good.

So there's now 2 Things that make up the difference of holding on to the lineal title and to be stripped when you leave a division:

1: Tell the World (or at least the anglon part of it), that you have intent to move back and fight the top guy.
2: If there is a perception that the particular alphabet organization puts pressure on the champion to make a mandatory defence, you can keep the title even though you leave the division.

Now that is pretty weak IMO. No.1 I dealt with earlier. No 2 is possibly worse. Canelo didn't leave because of pressure. He left because of weight. He said (the utter ridiculous Words of) being unable to move above the 155 lb division so he moved Down to the divsion a Pound below. Come on Cliff. Canelo left the MW's indefinetely.

[daggum]

so erdei was no longer the champ because he left the division...canelo did the same thing so i guess hes not champ.

[BattlingNelson]

so erdei was no longer the champ because he left the division...canelo did the same thing so i guess hes not champ.

That's what I would think also. Cliff's arguments for it being not so is above.

[soul_survivor]

There was a key difference. Canelo gave up the WBC belt under pressure to make a mandatory; Erdei vacated without similar heat. He could easily have moved up for a fight and then decided. I tend to error on the side of protecting the lineage. If Alvarez hasn't returned to middleweight this year, trust me, it will be revisited.

And no need to preface disagreeing with me. It's all good.

Let's be entirely honest, Alvarez is as much a lineal champ at middleweight as I am James Bond.

[BattlingNelson]

Let's be entirely honest, Alvarez is as much a lineal champ at middleweight as I am James Bond.

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[soul_survivor]

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lol

gd stuff