Who is the greatest of the 2nd tier heavyweights?

[fight_professor]

The first tier being the top 20 or so HW fighters of alltime. The broad characteristics being:

Undisputed or widely recognized world champion.

Numerous title defenses.

A dominant champion.

Success when faced with other great HW's.

I think that's a fair list. So a 2nd tier can be composed of those who:

Held legitimate world titles

Some successful defenses

A respected champion, if not dominant.

Some success or equal success/failure against great HW.

Using that broad criteria, please adjust it as you deem fit, who would be the best of the 2nd string?


I am caught in 2 minds on Bowe. Personally, head to head, I think he'd make list A-great HW, there arent more then 5-6 guys who'd beat him IMHO, but he may also slip into list B...

Any ideas?

[mickey malone]

My 'old mate' Joe Bugner is a good candidate (oldest man to win the WBF belt)
He was in & out of the top 10 for nearly 30 years!
Fought in the best company without getting KTFO
beat all of his closest competitors at veteran level.. Some of these names included Greg Page, Bonecrusher Smith, David Bey & 'Quick Tillis'
Prime, he twice went the distance with Ali, gave Frazier one of his hardest fights (DC)
as well as giving Ron Lyle problems for 10 rounds..
I'd say he won 90% of his fights in the 'second tier' division, & dominated as European champ on more than one occasion.. Although, not regarded as a concussive puncher his KO resume finished at 50%.. He had over 80 fights, only losing 16, in good company.. I think he is a worthy candidate.. He had a long & successful career...

[JAB5239]

Might not be the greatest of the 2nd teir heavies, but Jerry Quarry's name comes to mind.

[mickey malone]

Might not be the greatest of the 2nd teir heavies, but Jerry Quarry's name comes to mind.

For sure... He aptly falls into the mix.. Didn't have Bugners longevity though..

Bugner Quarry would'a been very interesting!

[TheGreatA]

Quarry probably defines the term "2nd tier heavyweight" better than anybody.

He didn't beat the best (Ali, Frazier, Norton) but he beat just about everyone else with names like Floyd Patterson, Ron Lyle, Earnie Shavers, Mac Foster, Thad Spencer, Buster Mathis, Lorenzo Zanon, Joey Orbillo, Randy Neuman, Jack Bodell, Larry Middleton, Brian London, George Johnson on his extensive resume.

He was above the European level heavyweights and the journeymen. Truly a world class top 10 heavyweight contender.

The best heavyweight who never got a chance against the best (Dempsey) was Harry Wills. I wouldn't call him second tier though since I'd probably rate him among my top 15 or top 20 ATG heavyweights.

[GJC]

So a 2nd tier can be composed of those who:
Held legitimate world titles
Some successful defenses
A respected champion, if not dominant.
Some success or equal success/failure against great HW.
Using that broad criteria, please adjust it as you deem fit, who would be the best of the 2nd string?

Can I totally cheat and use your criteria and have Sonny Liston?
Lost in 2nd defence, won two and lost two title fights.

[fight_professor]

I did say adjust the criteria as you deem fit. Most place Sonny in the A list.

WBF isnt a real title re: Bugner. I mean WBC/WBA/IBF and then WBO a bit below them.

Unless its one of those 4, said person wasnt a title holder.

[mickey malone]

I did say adjust the criteria as you deem fit. Most place Sonny in the A list.

WBF isnt a real title re: Bugner. I mean WBC/WBA/IBF and then WBO a bit below them.

Unless its one of those 4, said person wasnt a title holder.

By no means telling you how to run your own thread, but 2nd tier does kinda = non titlist

[GJC]

I did say adjust the criteria as you deem fit. Most place Sonny in the A list.

As do I, just having some fun

[TheGreatA]

If this thread is about champions who never held onto their title for long then I'd have to mention one of my favorites Jack Sharkey.

He was incredibly inconsistent but he could have beaten some of the greats at his best.

Sharkey came up short against Dempsey after an impressive start, lost his title to Carnera and was blown out by Joe Louis while past his prime.

He also had wins over Harry Wills, Max Schmeling, Primo Carnera, Tommy Loughran, George Godfrey, Young Stribling, Jack Delaney, Mike McTigue, Jim Maloney, Floyd Johnson...