The Past vs the Present - different arguments

[The Old LefHook]

I believe Mayweather is great enough to fight other ATG's, beat some, while giving all a good fight. He is no walkover, but in truth a bit too small for the likes of Leonard or Robinson. His mythical division would probably be 135 or 140. I don't know if he ever had a fight at either, but I believe they would be close to his best prime weight for facing other ATG's.

[aboutfkntime]

I believe Mayweather is great enough to fight other ATG's, beat some, while giving all a good fight. He is no walkover, but in truth a bit too small for the likes of Leonard or Robinson. His mythical division would probably be 135 or 140. I don't know if he ever had a fight at either, but I believe they would be close to his best prime weight for facing other ATG's.

those guys fought under same-day weigh-ins

MW would match up fine against either of them at welter

that style would keep him live against anyone his weight

like you, I see him winning some and losing some

[them_apples]

The only problem with Robinson I have when you compare him h2h is he fought in an era when everyone FOUGHT. A boxer and mover back then was still a fighter. Even SRL when he showed his boxing ability, was still a fighter. He hurt guys and exchanged, he just picked his exchanges.

There are fighters today that don't even go in to fight, they are content winning a round on a few jabs as long as they get the W.

this is where boxing has changed. That being said, I am still not sure if anyone today could win against a Leonard or Robinson. these guys had heart, they didn't just follow you around for 12 rounds while you frustrate them with a jab, sooner or later they will turn into a Maidana and go balls to the wall. Considering both are what 5'10 and 5'11 respectively (I have heard even taller for SRR) and not blown up by any means like a lot of WW's today because they don't do enough roadwork and the money division is at 147.

Me personally when I watch both fighters they just seem like they bring more to the table and are more serious then the fighters we have today. A lot meaner.

That being said I think a few styles might throw Robinson off a bit since he is used to fighting more violent men, but at the end of the day I can't see a guy like him who was champ when there was only one belt and during the ww2 era (considerably tougher and harder times) losing to anyone today. These new guys start back peddling from a nose bleed or just straight up quit.

[them_apples]

Yea definitely & completely on point.

Who's rules do you go by lol? And how is it not an unfair advantage for one guy to have Gans vs Mayweather under Mayweather era rules or Gans era rules?

These conversations are so goofy & don't even consider stuff like this not to mention how the world mighta been different in this era or that era that would have made a difference. Maybe Jack Johnson gots that Anthony Joshua body & is 6'7 if he woulda been born in this era where people are just bigger.

There nearly infinite if not infinite levels to this whole discussion which is what makes it so out there of a conversation to have while pretending these crazy aspects of determining who or what era was better matter, but these other crazy aspects that play into the hand everyone was dealt in the era they were dealt it don't.

whenever the heavyweight divison lacks talent, they always go back to bringing in the biggest lug they can find. As soon as the K bros hit the scene nobody thought they were special. Joshua as the same thing. people have just forgotten what a real heavyweight talent is.

Joe Louis fought 6 ft 7 men too. Buddy Baer for example. 6'7. Abe Simon 6'5 250 lbs. and a few others. They were just big lugs that got blasted out in a few rounds. Sure Joshua hits the weights and looks better on the scale, but he's a mediocre 1 trick Pony just like Wlad (who got sparked by a chubby 6 ft 2 er) and I am positive he is packing China because his body is gym build, he's a tall slim guy underneath all that muscle. He's not a George Foreman by any Margin who was born with a thick frame and natural working muscle.

You size hounds seem to have quickly forgot how Haye a natural cruiser beat on 7'2 Valuev, and Arguably a 50 year old Holyfield did as well.

people don't just get bigger in 50-60 years lol. Maybe 500 years you will find a difference. they might weigh more now because they eat more and do less cardio but they aren't actually bigger.

[Eff Pandas]

whenever the heavyweight divison lacks talent, they always go back to bringing in the biggest lug they can find. As soon as the K bros hit the scene nobody thought they were special. Joshua as the same thing. people have just forgotten what a real heavyweight talent is.

Joe Louis fought 6 ft 7 men too. Buddy Baer for example. 6'7. Abe Simon 6'5 250 lbs. and a few others. They were just big lugs that got blasted out in a few rounds. Sure Joshua hits the weights and looks better on the scale, but he's a mediocre 1 trick Pony just like Wlad (who got sparked by a chubby 6 ft 2 er) and I am positive he is packing China because his body is gym build, he's a tall slim guy underneath all that muscle. He's not a George Foreman by any Margin who was born with a thick frame and natural working muscle.

You size hounds seem to have quickly forgot how Haye a natural cruiser beat on 7'2 Valuev, and Arguably a 50 year old Holyfield did as well.

people don't just get bigger in 50-60 years lol. Maybe 500 years you will find a difference. they might weigh more now because they eat more and do less cardio but they aren't actually bigger.

Size hounds!?!?!?! LMFAO.

Idk wtf you are even talking about in regards to what I was talking about. I'm not size hounding whatever that is. I'm just saying over the course of the last 100ish years statistics have shown people have gotten bigger. Why that is, is up for speculation, I tend to believe nutrition being better is one likely factor among others. But why isn't so much the important part as its just a fact.

So by that being a fact its a safe assumption, imo, that had a guy like Jack Johnson had been born in the 1980's he'd likely have been naturally a bigger guy upon reaching maturity & likely would have been a stronger guy due to better nutrition. And likewise if Anthony Joshua had been born back in the 1880's he'd likely have been a shorter guy with lesser nutritional choices & therefore never look like he does now.

This isn't so much a point in who wins or loses in some stupid fantasy fight some of the dummies here love to jack off to as its just discussing one factor among infinite problems with talking about guys fighting in a vacuum of time & space against each other when its a ridiculous to begin with due to those infinite problems with time traveling people from all sorts of different eras when so much was different & had those fighters been born in another era there lives & boxing career would have went differently due for various reasons like the size issue for HW's in particular, for alterations made with rules, the way judges have scored differently, the weigh in rules, the number of rounds & so on & so forth. There's a million reasons fantasy bs is silly, but most certainly when you only bring up the details you wanna bring up.

[The Old LefHook]

I certainly did not mean MW could beat Leonard or Robinson. He could not. I meant other ATGs at his weight and size. Those two are too big and too good at what they did. MW did not have the punch to affect them adversely.

MayW's mythic class would probably be 140, where he may have never even fought. He will run into Duran there because Duran can fight comfortably at 140. They can both make that weight using same day weigh ins. Fighters who cannot comfortably make a weight must find themselves a division or a half division higher. Drained ATGs cannot fight healthy ATGs. I do not, for instance, like the chances of a drained Hopkins against a fresh ATG middleweight who makes the weight easily. Hagler, Robinson and Monzon could all make the weight again and again. They will beat drained super middleweights and light heavyweights who get away with calling themselves middleweights these days. When they have to drain theselves on the day of the fight and then fight another ATG that evening, they will find out they are not middleweights.

If they can make middleweight at all they can make it the day of the fight. They are going to be drained, though, is my point, and that has to be taken into account. McClellan will not quite be himself when he steps in to face Monzon, if we allow drained fighters. He probably will not even get by Julian Jackson under those conditions.