Religion thread

[James307]

are you serious? are you that stupid that you believe everything in the bible. You are stupid, if you go to a church that teaches straight from the bible. how can you believe in all the barbaric traditions of the the old testament.

You speak ignorance you don't know nothing about God's Word... i am not stupid but those who are not in Christ or not on the truth are stupid and fooled by the devil by worldliness... you should understand first why and what happen on the Old Testament before concluding... study it.

[James307]

Why Is There So Much Violence in the Old Testament?

Many Christians and non-Christians alike are horrified when they first encounter certain episodes of violence in the Old Testament. The God that commanded the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites just doesn’t seem like the God of love and forgiveness embodied in Jesus Christ in the New Testament. How could the same God who said “love your enemies” and to “do good to those who hate you” also order the Israelite people to engage in violent warfare? What possible reasons could God have had to order the destruction of these nations? Such questions continue to trouble many people-both Christian and non-Christian-and it is those questions that I will attempt to tackle in this article.

That the Canaanites were a wicked people who routinely engaged in morally repulsive behavior is difficult to deny. Such actions ranged from incest and bestiality to child sacrifice by fire. Given God’s holy standard, such behavior seems to cry out to God for judgment. Even so, the Book of Genesis tells us that God was patient with them as “the sin of the Amorite was not yet filled up” (Genesis 15:16). Yahweh’s patience extended for hundreds of years before He ordered the destruction of these nations.

As Dr. Paul Copan has noted, in ordering the Israelite attack on Canaan, God enacted what was essentially a form of corporate capital punishment on a culture that were guilty of the most heinous of crimes. This was not some type of indiscriminate violence against unassuming peoples. Moreover, several Old Testament scholars have noted that all of the battles that were approved by God after the time of Joshua were defensive in nature. Not every battle recorded in the Old Testament was the result of Israelite aggression. In addition, God’s judgment on Canaan involved exceptions for those that were willing to turn to Him (e.g., Rahab and her family).

The ordering of the death of children, however, continues to remain the most difficult of Old Testament ethical issues. Even if God had morally justifiable reasons to execute the Canaanites for their crimes, surely this did not apply to their children. How could Yahweh have ordered the killing of every Canaanite-including their children? Here we should remember that an argument can be made from Scripture that all children who die in childhood (prior to an age of moral accountability) will be saved. Texts such as 2nd Samuel 12:23 and Matthew 19:14 seem to imply just that. Isaiah 7:15-16 also seems to hint at an age of moral accountability, prior to which, a child may not be morally capable of discerning right from wrong, and thus, not be guilty of any personal sin (despite having been born sinful in Adam). If this reasoning is correct, by taking the lives of these children, God may have ensured that they would enter His eternal kingdom-a scenario that is difficult to envision if God had allowed them to live into adulthood .

In conclusion, while God's judgment of the Canaanites displayed His wrath against sin, His love and compassion were displayed in Christ Jesus. The same God who judged the Canaanites for their wickedness came to Earth in Jesus Christ to die a barbaric atoning death for the sins of the world (1st John 2:2) while we were still His enemies (Romans 5:7-8). All of the difficult examples of violence in the Old Testament must be seen in light of God's last and definitive revelation of Himself in Jesus Christ-a man who was the embodiment of mercy and compassion.

[the_ilest]

Dang... you must come from a place that isn't very tolerant to religion

on the contrary i am ok with religion. i just don't tolerate idiocy caused by religion.

[the_ilest]

You speak ignorance you don't know nothing about God's Word... i am not stupid but those who are not in Christ or not on the truth are stupid and fooled by the devil by worldliness... you should understand first why and what happen on the Old Testament before concluding... study it.

you are funny and dumb. look at your computer, Electricity, light bulbs, Those are products of worldliness and atheism. You are so dumb and a hypocrite, calling people "who are not in christ as fooled and stupid." You call yourself a christian but you use products created by atheists. Your such a clown. Everything around you proves there is no god.

Many Christians and non-Christians alike are horrified when they first encounter certain episodes of violence in the Old Testament. The God that commanded the Israelites to destroy the Canaanites just doesn’t seem like the God of love and forgiveness embodied in Jesus Christ in the New Testament. How could the same God who said “love your enemies” and to “do good to those who hate you” also order the Israelite people to engage in violent warfare? What possible reasons could God have had to order the destruction of these nations? Such questions continue to trouble many people-both Christian and non-Christian-and it is those questions that I will attempt to tackle in this article.


That the Canaanites were a wicked people who routinely engaged in morally repulsive behavior is difficult to deny. Such actions ranged from incest and bestiality to child sacrifice by fire. Given God’s holy standard, such behavior seems to cry out to God for judgment. Even so, the Book of Genesis tells us that God was patient with them as “the sin of the Amorite was not yet filled up” (Genesis 15:16). Yahweh’s patience extended for hundreds of years before He ordered the destruction of these nations.

As Dr. Paul Copan has noted, in ordering the Israelite attack on Canaan, God enacted what was essentially a form of corporate capital punishment on a culture that were guilty of the most heinous of crimes. This was not some type of indiscriminate violence against unassuming peoples. Moreover, several Old Testament scholars have noted that all of the battles that were approved by God after the time of Joshua were defensive in nature. Not every battle recorded in the Old Testament was the result of Israelite aggression. In addition, God’s judgment on Canaan involved exceptions for those that were willing to turn to Him (e.g., Rahab and her family).

The ordering of the death of children, however, continues to remain the most difficult of Old Testament ethical issues. Even if God had morally justifiable reasons to execute the Canaanites for their crimes, surely this did not apply to their children. How could Yahweh have ordered the killing of every Canaanite-including their children? Here we should remember that an argument can be made from Scripture that all children who die in childhood (prior to an age of moral accountability) will be saved. Texts such as 2nd Samuel 12:23 and Matthew 19:14 seem to imply just that. Isaiah 7:15-16 also seems to hint at an age of moral accountability, prior to which, a child may not be morally capable of discerning right from wrong, and thus, not be guilty of any personal sin (despite having been born sinful in Adam). If this reasoning is correct, by taking the lives of these children, God may have ensured that they would enter His eternal kingdom-a scenario that is difficult to envision if God had allowed them to live into adulthood .

In conclusion, while God's judgment of the Canaanites displayed His wrath against sin, His love and compassion were displayed in Christ Jesus. The same God who judged the Canaanites for their wickedness came to Earth in Jesus Christ to die a barbaric atoning death for the sins of the world (1st John 2:2) while we were still His enemies (Romans 5:7-8). All of the difficult examples of violence in the Old Testament must be seen in light of God's last and definitive revelation of Himself in Jesus Christ-a man who was the embodiment of mercy and compassion.

Who else says that the cannanites are wicked people? no one. There are extensive historical knowledge about the cannanites and non say that they are wicked. I cant believe you actually believe this crap. No one ever goes to war because of moral issues. People go to war because they hate each other and want more land and resources. Then they use morality to justify their acts. just look at every war. Use your head, stupid.

[Dale Cardon]

are you serious? are you that stupid that you believe everything in the bible. You are stupid, if you go to a church that teaches straight from the bible. how can you believe in all the barbaric traditions of the the old testament.

Damn... you must really hate theist people. It shows with your never ending name callings. Can you not just respect other people’s opinions and beliefs?

Your intolerance pretty much defines your true character. That anybody who disagrees with you is irrational and stupid?

Can you not just say, you don’t agree with theist people but respect their opportunity to be able to have a different point of view?

Try it, it is good for the heart.

[Dale Cardon]

mga parekoy, nakakainsultona ang mokongnato sa walangkatapusan panlalait samga salungatsa kanyang paniniwala.

Sinomaygusto naipadala angmokong nato sa Algeria?

[fabie]

This thread is really turning into a joke...without rebuking anyone, why hurling all the insults? Just like in man's history (redundancy?) - man has killed in the name of God more than any other reason. Because of Religion wars prevailed.

Sad.

[talip bin osman]

man getting in touch with his inner self, realising his part in the interconnectedness of things and his relationship to the divine force that permeate the world... to experience this is to tap into what carl jung calls an archetype known the wise old man that resides in our collective unconscious... you can call it spirituality or maybe you can call it enlightenment...

it is through this experience that man was able to establish the greatest religions in history... the problem starts when religion starts to get organised... hierarchies, dogmas and all...

[the_ilest]

Damn... you must really hate theist people. It shows with your never ending name callings. 1. Can you not just respect other people’s opinions and beliefs?

Your intolerance pretty much defines your true character. 2.that anybody who disagrees with you is irrational and stupid?

3 Can you not just say, you don’t agree with theist people but respect their opportunity to be able to have a different point of view?

4Try it, it is good for the heart.

Actually some of my best friends are priests. You can see me attending church on saturday and sunday. I teach bible lessons in the weekend and christian history during the week. I think i'm really good at respecting people i was approved by several christian groups.

Now time to answers your questions.
1 & 2 No and neither should you. i follow the Catholic doctrine that states that when people are wrong they should be quickly corrected before they spread their ignorance and idiocy. Bible morons will always try to justify their deeds according to the bible and justify the bible on moral grounds. Both are wrong. The KKK uses the bible to support their cause. the bible supported Slavery ideals in the south during the the american civil war. However, the bible was also used by the north and England to free slaves. Furthermore, the bible was used to promote women rights in the early part of the movement. Therefore, the bible should never be used to support "bad" causes or what is viewed as bad causes.

2. If you disagree with me present evidence and facts, other than the bible. The bible is full of contradictions. Using the bible is really silly. for example, i'm a atheist and i disapprove of abortion and i use papal bulls *papal bulls are letters by popes that are made into catholic law* to teach why abortion is wrong. For example if i were to use the bible to teach about abortion, then according to the bible abortion is ok as-long as the fetus has no blood, "there is no life without blood" it depends on the women but roughly abortion would be ok from 1-2 weeks. But **** that, life starts at conception and the growth of cells. See what the popes did there, they used their heads instead of the bible. Good for them. English priests and deacons against slavery. Brains over the bible my friend.

3. In most cases i agree with theists ideals. Im a proud supporter of the Second Vatican council and wish for a third vatican council to change gay rights in the church. The only differences i have with theists is with those of pre-vatican 2 people that refuse to change or bible morons and people thinking that bible is correct about everything. I agree with people that know and follow the bible," for what it is vs what it says it is." If you don't know the difference don't read the bible.

4. im a atheist approved by the Christians my emotions come from my brain not my heart. unlike jesus who in christian iconography has fire "above his heart," i'm more in line with like catholic iconography "fire above my tongue and fire above my head."

[Dale Cardon]

Actually some of my best friends are priests. You can see me attending church on saturday and sunday. I teach bible lessons in the weekend and christian history during the week. I think i'm really good at respecting people i was approved by several christian groups.

Now time to answers your questions.
1 & 2 No and neither should you. i follow the Catholic doctrine that states that when people are wrong they should be quickly corrected before they spread their ignorance and idiocy. Bible morons will always try to justify their deeds according to the bible and justify the bible on moral grounds. Both are wrong. The KKK uses the bible to support their cause. the bible supported Slavery ideals in the south during the the american civil war. However, the bible was also used by the north and England to free slaves. Furthermore, the bible was used to promote women rights in the early part of the movement. Therefore, the bible should never be used to support "bad" causes or what is viewed as bad causes.

2. If you disagree with me present evidence and facts, other than the bible. The bible is full of contradictions. Using the bible is really silly. for example, i'm a atheist and i disapprove of abortion and i use papal bulls *papal bulls are letters by popes that are made into catholic law* to teach why abortion is wrong. For example if i were to use the bible to teach about abortion, then according to the bible abortion is ok as-long as the fetus has no blood, "there is no life without blood" it depends on the women but roughly abortion would be ok from 1-2 weeks. But **** that, life starts at conception and the growth of cells. See what the popes did there, they used their heads instead of the bible. Good for them. English priests and deacons against slavery. Brains over the bible my friend.

3. In most cases i agree with theists ideals. Im a proud supporter of the Second Vatican council and wish for a third vatican council to change gay rights in the church. The only differences i have with theists is with those of pre-vatican 2 people that refuse to change or bible morons and people thinking that bible is correct about everything. I agree with people that know and follow the bible," for what it is vs what it says it is." If you don't know the difference don't read the bible.

4. im a atheist approved by the Christians my emotions come from my brain not my heart. unlike jesus who in christian iconography has fire "above his heart," i'm more in line with like catholic iconography "fire above my tongue and fire above my head."

I don't care what you believe in, just show respect for other people's beliefs. Where is respect in name callings?

Whether you are atheist or whatever, you will get respect from me and from most of the Christian and Muslim pinoys here as long as you give back.

This the reason why I have high regards for the likes of talip and fabie. They can disagree without name callings.