Lyoto Machida VS Mauricio Shogun: Who won?

[Rabbit ♠]

Well, i am a huge Shogun fan but i really thought Machida was in another league and clearly above everybody, like GSP in WW or Fedor in HW.
I thought Shogun was fighting a dead man in Chuck Liddell, who looked worse than he did against Jardine. So it was pretty legit to count Shogun out in that fight.

Plus, Shogun used to be an offensive striker, who could get careless in fights and even got knocked down by featherfisted Rogerio Nogueira. That with the great counter ability of Machida showed against Rashad, Thiago Silva, who were all good fighters lead people to believe a guy who struggled with 43/44 years old Coleman couldn't beat him.

Still, i was impressed by the work on his boxing done before the Liddell fight.

Look at what i could do with your post and it'd still be true:


Well the last sentence will be true after November 14th

I was very impressed with Shogun. I really thought he'd come out guns blazing and Machida wouldn't have enough time to time him. Shogun did none of that and actually tried to time Machida which is nuts! lol. I never count Shogun out. Then again he's my fav LHW and the guy's still in his 20's. I just couldn't stand the Machida hype and this whole "Machida era" and "who will end his reign" when the guy didn't have any title defenses yet. BTW I don't see anything wrong with what you did with my quote by inserting Pacquiao! I agree 100 percent.

[Warbeast]

to win the against the champion, you have to win overwhelmingly

just like lyoto did when he won the championship.

shogun failed to do that, and the odds are always in favor of

the reigning champion, which is why he was awarded the victory.

[Junito-Rulez]

to win the against the champion, you have to win overwhelmingly

just like lyoto did when he won the championship.

shogun failed to do that, and the odds are always in favor of

the reigning champion, which is why he was awarded the victory.

Rampage VS Griffin was a very close fight. IMO Rampage lost it but Griffin didn't win, and Rampage didn't get the win. I believe that judges are influenced by UFC's financial interests and marketing champs.

[Rabbit ♠]

to win the against the champion, you have to win overwhelmingly

just like lyoto did when he won the championship.

shogun failed to do that, and the odds are always in favor of

the reigning champion, which is why he was awarded the victory.

Watch Rampage vs Griffin

[Syf]

To me the Shogun stats are spot on, remember, he was the one chipping away at the legs of Machida for five whole rounds, plus landing jabs and elbows here and there for five rounds.

Lyoto after round two barely used striking to the head, he limited himself to the occasional straight left to counter a leg kick

I go back to Joe Rogan here.. I know, people are tired of hearing of him.

But several times Joe was talkin about "nice body kick" when Lyoto BLOCKED that **** with his shin/knee, or even arm. And if Fightmetric is any indication of what Joe was saying, then yes, Shogun's stats were bloated, and Lyoto's were underrepresented.

One final point about these statistics systems. I can't think of a time, offhand, that statistics systems have disagreed significantly with the announcers/commentators. Compubox, every time, seems to fall in line with the announcers, regardless of whether the announcers are full of **** that night or not. I tend to suspect fightmetric is quite similar in that regard.

[Syf]

Oh..and one more point on top of my last: Takedown defense..

I thought judges awarded when a fighter successfully defends against a takedown attempt. Lyoto defended against at least a couple of them

[Stalaggh]

Muy Thai and Kickboxing are both striking based, while jui jitsu and wrestling is grappling of course, so exactly what arts did shogun mix to try and win the fight... get out of here with that fail **** I am rarely if ever wrong when anylazing a fight because I do it unbiased. I watched the entire fight most of it without listening to the dumb ass commentators, obviously you didn't...

Where did I say fail in my response........He mixed using Muay Thai and Kickboxing, the same as Machida and clearly out punched or kicked him, so all your fuzz is unexplainable. Not all MMA have wrestling or Jiu-jitsu.

[Stalaggh]

I go back to Joe Rogan here.. I know, people are tired of hearing of him.

But several times Joe was talkin about "nice body kick" when Lyoto BLOCKED that **** with his shin/knee, or even arm. And if Fightmetric is any indication of what Joe was saying, then yes, Shogun's stats were bloated, and Lyoto's were underrepresented.

One final point about these statistics systems. I can't think of a time, offhand, that statistics systems have disagreed significantly with the announcers/commentators. Compubox, every time, seems to fall in line with the announcers, regardless of whether the announcers are full of **** that night or not. I tend to suspect fightmetric is quite similar in that regard.

True, he blocked several but clearly you can see that most of them hit their mark and from Machida's body language you can see it clearly affected him. Rogan and most of the people in the arena were rooting for Machida but upon seeing him get out kicked by Shogun and not being productive enough it turned them around. Takedown defense, yeah there about five or four take down attempt but also the judges give or in this case should have given points in the clinch where Rua's knees were hitting Lyoto's knees without mercy. But with Cecil Peoples's comments one can see where the real bias was.

[Drunken Cat]

Old news, but I finally watched the fight. And yes, Shogun got robbed.

The first two rounds were close and could arguably have gone either way, although Shogun was able to do significant damage to Machida's legs, which enabled him to take over the fight from the 3rd. Machida's legs were being iced in the corner from round 1.

Rounds 3-5 were Shogun's rounds hands down.

[vinnie7731]

Rampage VS Griffin was a very close fight. IMO Rampage lost it but Griffin didn't win, and Rampage didn't get the win. I believe that judges are influenced by UFC's financial interests and marketing champs.

do you really believe that? im not knocking you, cause anyone can believe anything they want. i will say im a huge mma fan and watch all the events and really like the ufc the most out of all the orgs. i really hope this isnt the case and that if we ever find out that is true, it will be a huge let down and i may stop following the ufc. dana claims they have no control of the judging and that its completley separate, but i guess you never know what goes on behing closed doors.