Miguel Torres is not a p4p fighter.

[F l i c k e r]

Thank you Delta. That idiot doesn't know MMA. If he did he would have realized that Shinya is a lightweight and that fight was at Welterweight and Mach is a damn good welterweight too.



Just plain out. Alot of people here are stupid. I cant say Torres is a great fighter because of the weight he fights at. I do know however his natural weight is definately not Bantam. People are also not realizing the fact that the Bantam weight has no competition at all.

When I see guys like Jens fighting up to 170(in his prime). KID(natural feather) fighting guys at Welter. Tokoro fighting Royce Gracie. Shinya having the balls to move up from light to welter. Hell even BJ moving all the way to 205 and fighting Machida. Just magnificent performances from smaller guys at higher weights. Then I see 5'10" Miguel Torres weighing in 135 then come fight night he is at least a lightweight. There is a problem there.

Origin of Pound for Pound.
It is often said to have been created to describe world Welterweight and Middleweight champion Sugar Ray Robinson.[1] Robinson is one of the most accomplished fighters of all time, but his supporters realized that, while he could beat anyone in his own class, as a Middleweight he would not be able to beat a top Heavyweight. Hence, Robinson was called the pound-for-pound best without being expected to beat much larger fighters, under the belief that he as a Middleweight was still a better quality fighter than any fighter fighting at heavier or lighter weights than him.

That is not what Miguel Torres is doing. If he faught at his natural weight. He would more than likely get his ass beat. Fighting at the nobody weight class when he is more than likely boarderline Light-Welter at natural weight.

[jakkups]

Thank you Delta. That idiot doesn't know MMA. If he did he would have realized that Shinya is a lightweight and that fight was at Welterweight and Mach is a damn good welterweight too.

You've made issue of Torres's height being an issue at his weight class yet you have no problem with the fact that Aoki is an inch taller than not only Torres but the current No.1 WW in the world GSP and is fighting at a lower weight class. And now you make it an issue of weight. Please make up your mind, stop contradicting yourself.

And Mach a good WW. Nope, an average one at best. His best years are behind him and the fact that he was able to completely destroy Aoki within 30 seconds proves what I have said about Aoki all along. Good grappler, **** chin and a crap fighter. If that was against any of the young and in their prime WWs he would probably get killed. No scratch that he would get killed. And probably cry like a little schoolgirl.

Just plain out. Alot of people here are stupid. I cant say Torres is a great fighter because of the weight he fights at. I do know however his natural weight is definately not Bantam. People are also not realizing the fact that the Bantam weight has no competition at all.

His weight before he cuts is never more than about 148 more often it is less. For whatever reason you refuse to believe that Torres is fighting at his natural weight class. Do you even know what a natural weight class means. It is the weight class that a fighter can make without severely damaging themselves to get there. Essentially Torres can make 125 which proves that he has and is a naturally small guy that carry's very little weight for his height. And trying to say that Bantamweight has no competition at all is just you trying to clutch at straws. There is and has been plenty of competition at 135 for years. It's a simple case of exposure. Fact is that the most well known organisations over the years have never focused on anything lower than 155. That doesn't mean that the weight classes below this haven't got some true bonfide beasts in them. They just haven't got many stars because they haven't had the platform that was given to the higher weight classes. Try again.

When I see guys like Jens fighting up to 170(in his prime). KID(natural feather) fighting guys at Welter. Tokoro fighting Royce Gracie. Shinya having the balls to move up from light to welter. Hell even BJ moving all the way to 205 and fighting Machida. Just magnificent performances from smaller guys at higher weights. Then I see 5'10" Miguel Torres weighing in 135 then come fight night he is at least a lightweight. There is a problem there.

That is not what Miguel Torres is doing. If he faught at his natural weight. He would more than likely get his ass beat. Fighting at the nobody weight class when he is more than likely boarderline Light-Welter at natural weight.

I 've already spoken about Torres's weight come fight night and it is not 155, it's less. A guy who walks around at less than 150 wouldn't come in over that on the night of a fight. That is absurd thinking to say the least.

And you do know that Torres spent the first half of his career fighting guys 180lbs+ do't you? And you do know that he was still a kid and never weighed more than 120 naturally right? Yet you talk about Jens Pulver and BJ Penn's forays into the higher weight classes and then you say that Miguel hasn't got the guts to fight at a higher weight when he had done for awhile. You obviously don't know what you're talking about and have a selective way of thinking.

You obviously misunderstand that wikipedia ripped definition of what Pound For Pound means. Again you're trying to make it out to be a height issue. And think that by Torres cutting weight (which is what 95% of fighters do anyway) and fighting at a weight class that you consider him to be too big it means that he doesn't have credentials to be considered a top P4P fighter. You do realise that Sugar Ray Robinson used to cut from 170 to make 147 and 160 right? Does that mean that Sugar Ray wasn't a true P4P great? I mean by your ******ed way of thinking it would mean that Sugar Ray wasn't really a P4P great. But once again you fail to realise what I told you before. It's not about the weight. It's about the skills. Like Robinson, Torres would never be expected to go up and beat a heavyweight because he is a natural 135lb fighter. But if you took the skills he had and put them into the body of a natural heavyweight then he would. That's what P4P means. Not travelling up the weight classes and fighting guys bigger than you. That proves nothing because the playing field isn't level to start with which immediately voids any P4P implications that said matchp may have. If anything it just makes it freakshow matchup.

[Xyei]

:jerk::jerk:

I couldn't disagree any more than I do.

[DeltaSigChi4]

So, Aoki gets caught by a BIGGER fighter, and all of a sudden everything that he has ever done before = ****? I'd like to know what you had to say about GSP after he was knocked dead by Matt Serra. Or actually, I don't. It seems like your knowledge of the sport seems to be nonexistent; that you have such a deep and undying hatred for certain fighters [Aoki], you cannot formulate an OBJECTIVE opinion of fights. You simply cannot. You are clearly on the side of fighter bashing; of disrespecting professional fighters that have so much for a sport that so many of us love. You're a worthless troll.

E

[Xyei]

So, Aoki gets caught by a BIGGER fighter, and all of a sudden everything that he has ever done before = ****? I'd like to know what you had to say about GSP after he was knocked dead by Matt Serra. Or actually, I don't. It seems like your knowledge of the sport seems to be nonexistent; that you have such a deep and undying hatred for certain fighters [Aoki], you cannot formulate an OBJECTIVE opinion of fights. You simply cannot. You are clearly on the side of fighter bashing; of disrespecting professional fighters that have so much for a sport that so many of us love. You're a worthless troll.

E

Who are you talking to?

[sunthunder]

Sakurai may be past his best, and an undersized welterweight now (who really should have spent his whole career at 155), but I'd like to highlight that at one point, he was considered the top welterweight in the sport, and the top p4p fighter. It was his win over Sakurai that in many peoples eyes cemented Hughes as the king of the division. In his own right, Mach is an awesome grappler (ADCC absolute class runner up), and even as a natural lightweight has always had good power that carried over to his welterweight fights.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Miguel Torres is a bad, bad man. He is always in incredible shape, he's good at both stand up and ground game.......

What more do you want?

[SAN D13GO VILLAN]

Put down that Hatorade!!!

[F l i c k e r]

Miguel Torres is a bad, bad man. He is always in incredible shape, he's good at both stand up and ground game.......

What more do you want?

I just want to see him fight some real competition. Instead of vastly out-weighing his competition come fight night. At least Featherweight, then I can give him some real props. I respect the dude because I know it has to really hard to cut to 135. I just rather see him fight people who are more on his level.

Put down that Hatorade!!!

No hatorade here. Just speaking the truth on how I feel. If he fought people that could handle him. Hence, people that come in at fight night even with Torres' weight. Then I can give him so real props.


Also, in defense of Shinya. He has beaten Hayato at 155. So, Shinya in his comfort zone can beat Sakurai. Where as Sakurai at his comfort zone can beat Aoki. 1-1 series tie.

[Xyei]

I just want to see him fight some real competition. Instead of vastly out-weighing his competition come fight night. At least Featherweight, then I can give him some real props. I respect the dude because I know it has to really hard to cut to 135. I just rather see him fight people who are more on his level.

Where are you getting this information from? All sources I've read say that he walks around only 10 pounds over his natural fighting weight of 135. Just because he's tall for the division does not automatically mean that he has to cut weight. I also have read that he doesn't cut weight by starving or rubber suit. He just spars to drop the extra 10 lbs.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/...=6388&zoneid=3