UFC 96: Jackson vs Jardine?

[DaneNoodles]

Yeah it seems like a case of Dana pulling his mafioso bull****.

****ing hate that tomato gangster bull****

[jakkups]

I'll admit that I'm no fan of Griffin, but I believe Shogun had a torn ACL going into that fight.

That said, I haven't yet seen tonight's fight vs Coleman so I'll reserve judgement for right now.

He had a nagging injury that didn't affect the fight. It was after the fight when he was training for Chuck that he tore it. Either way, nagging injury or not, Anderson Silva beat Lutter after coming back from surgery on both knees 10 weeks prior. Randy and Forrest both had their arms broken in fights and still stopped their opponents. I know plenty f people on here thought Rua was on the level if not above Silva and I am 100% sure they all thought he was leagues above Griffin so I don't see it as a viable excuse for his performance.

And this fight he looked even worse and he wasn't made to work hard at all. After the first 2 mins Coleman was done, but so was Shogun.

I think you didn't understand what I said about Jackson. I was talking about how Jackson has went on recently to do much better than he did in Pride. He has turned his aggressiveness into a positive and made himself a force to be reckoned with to any 205 fighter.

I understand perfectly. He's changed yes, but he's changed for the better and has proven it. But the point I'm making is that it doesn't matter what Quinton has done to change his style. Forget what steps he has taken, it's that he is performing up to standard right now at the present time.

What I'm saying is that Rua has now, and has always had the POTENTIAL to be an All-Time great. I wasn't trying to play off of what I read you say about his kicks and stomps, but I was rather saying that what they take away from him shouldn't effect his stand-up performance and make him as terribly sluggish as he was. Rua was literally slower than Super Heavyweights and gassed twice as fast. He is definitely not doing something right. The proof is in the pudding, that he is capable of fighting actively for an entire fight (Nogueira) I just wonder what has happened to the guy's cardio.

To be honest, I'm thinking drugs.

I know you believe that he has had potential to be an all-time great that's fine Bricks. I just don't agree with you. I've always felt his wild striking and tendency to just swing and brawl doesn't do him any favours nor do I think it is that effective against guys who have good technical striking. Plus having lagging cardio doesn't cause what whappened aganst Coleman to happen. Coleman was done after 2 mins and all Shogun had to do was pick his shots and he woulda finished him within the first round. Instead he gets taken down wiith some of the sloppiest takedowns I have ever seen and only got him out of there because Coleman's legs wouldn't hold up. I mean he got lucky tonight in that his opponent was an old man who lost his skill a very long time ago. 90% of the guys in the division woulda given Shogun the beating of a lifetime if they fought him that night good cardio or not.

Don't get me wrong I think the gas tank is an issue but it certainly isn't the only thing stopping Shogun from rediscovering form. That's 2 fights in a row that Shogun has looked less than average against guys he is supposedly meant to run through. The issue's Shogun has are much more than just a cardio issue. And since you mentioned drugs I'll say that it wouldn't surprise me. Pride never tested their fighters for anything and from what Rampage has said is that Chute Boxe guys were on juice over there. Looking at the Shogun now compare to the Shogun then and they look very different. He looks smaller, softer and for a 205lb fighter he looks undersized for the division. In all honesty he should be a MW just to look at him. The cut to 205 shouldn't be an issue and I'm pretty sure that it isn't even a big cut to make for him at least not as big as guys like Rampage, Grffin, Couture had to make. Drugs could be the issue, rather the lack of them that is. And if so then that would mean that the Shogun of Pride was nothing but a fraud and we are seeing the real Shogun. I hope I'm wrong.

[D.C.]

Shogun's situation kind of reminds me of a BJ Penn. They both have the potential to be All-Time Greats, but they need to train harder instead of relying on natural ability.

If Shogun trains hard for Chuck, I'm talking train like he did for Quinton Jackson in PRIDE FC, he will absolutely murder Chuck. It's hard to counter punch someone like Shogun, especially in Chuck's case where it's apparent that his speed is starting to leave him. Back then Shogun's head movement, defense and striking ability were all phenomenal, but recently they have been lackluster. If Shogun trains/performs like he did against Coleman, all I can see is him getting TKO'd.

It's easy to counter punch someone like Shogun, he has no technique. Frankly, he relied on stomps and kicks and a fast pace to defeat his opponents. He now has neither. And his head movement was never good, neither was his striking. He was sloppy, he just did a lot in a short amount of time.

Chuck will KO him, badly. Even in 2005, Chuck would have KO'd him badly.

[th4l3pr3ch4un]

Jardine vs rampage???? That disgusts me.

[YUHHHHHHH!]

Know a positive thing that I can say about Shogun after that fight? His legs kicks are vicious.

[Dice]

I think Jardine vs Bahna Cane woulda been a better fight

[fathergll]

Speaking of undercards, why is Fitch-Gono on the undercard of UFC 94? They're fighting under Bonner-Jones. Wtf?

Thats not the first time the UFC has done this. Even worst than Fitch was at UFC 82 they had Arlovski on the prelims. Now that was a joke considering Arlovski was getting main event class money, a former champ, had won his previous two fights and got just as big crowd reaction as the main event fighters

[fathergll]

It's easy to counter punch someone like Shogun, he has no technique. Frankly, he relied on stomps and kicks and a fast pace to defeat his opponents. He now has neither. And his head movement was never good, neither was his striking. He was sloppy, he just did a lot in a short amount of time.

Chuck will KO him, badly. Even in 2005, Chuck would have KO'd him badly.

Yeah I would agree with that statement. Yeah even in 2005 with both in their primes Chuck would have been a bad style match for Shogun. I really wouldnt see Shogun being able to ever get a Muay thai clinch on Chuck

[jakkups]

Thats not the first time the UFC has done this. Even worst than Fitch was at UFC 82 they had Arlovski on the prelims. Now that was a joke considering Arlovski was getting main event class money, a former champ, had won his previous two fights and got just as big crowd reaction as the main event fighters

They did the same when Rizzo and Rodriguez's contracts were up. Both guys met on the prelims of a UFC event and both of those guys were former UFC Champs and still highly rated in the division. I think that was more for the fact that it was his last fight with them. I don't blame them for that at all. When you're a promoter you promote what's under your banner plain and simple. Promoting a guy who is no longer fighting for you win, lose or draw is pointless.