boxing history

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

A tribute to the GREAT - Robert "Ruby" Fitzsimmons

W-54 L-8 D-7 (47 ko's)
Date of Birth: 26th May 1863
Date of Death: 22nd October 1917
Nationality: British
Noteable wins:

Beat Jack Dempsey TKO 13 to become the World Middleweight Champion
Beat George Gardner PTS 20 to become the World Light Heavyweight Champion
Beat James J Corbett KO 14 to become the World Heavyweight Champion

Photo #1


Photo #2

[KidBlackie]

EDIT: Sam's prime heavy years were during Burns/Johnson/Willard eras which lasted an amazing 13-14 yrs.

[J !]

Agreed K blackie, as discusse dint eh thread Sam would have to have taken Dempsey on at the start of his reigbn but it was still d-able Langofrd was on the slide by 22 mind.

However thats still 3 years i was viable and he should have had a crack imo. Lets put it this way he woudl have done if he had been around today.

[KidBlackie]

However thats still 3 years i was viable ]]]]]
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Dempsey was controlled by Kearns and Rickard and had no say in who he fought until he left them 4yrs later. By then Sam had retired to Mexico, but regardless, by 1919 when Dempsey won his title, Langford was becoming very beatable by Wills and dropping a decision to Bill Tate shows you how far he was slipping.

Did you know that Sam almost got to Burns before Johnson did? Yep, Sam was over in France when Burns came through on his world title tour but the financing couldn't be set up in time before Tommy set sail to Australia.

Have you ever compared Langford's and Jeannettes records from their last fight with Johnson until Johnson was KOed by Willard? Sam was knocking out the cream of the heavies by a 4-1 ratio over what Johnson could do against middleweights and journeymen heavies. It's a pitiful comparison and really highlights Johnson's fear of losing his title and prestige to another black man.

[J !]

nice dude, nice.

I dont know how much io go for demsey being manipulated though, smome sources say kearns et al did, others say he had more of a say....still i guess they must have had some deal of influence.

Maybe Dempsey was ust happy to roll with it.

Kid blackie have you heard of a guy called Bert Gilroy?

Scots from the 20's-40's never got a crack at the title but it seems the type of story you may be interested in.

[KidBlackie]

[[[Kid blackie have you heard of a guy called Bert Gilroy?

Scots from the 20's-40's never got a crack at the title but it seems the type of story you may be interested in.]]]
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Well, it was hard and expensive to travel to America where the titles usually resided. That's why I great respect Peter Jackson and Ruby Robert for coming over and taking on America's best. Gilroy seems to have been a local legend and tough customer, but was very inconsistent throughout his career and lost to his best comp, Cerdan and Mills by KO. About the only good thing in boxing these days is more international types of bouts. Gilroy doubtless would have a shot at a world title eventually if he fought today.

[J !]

he was actually a natural middelweight though and lost to cerdanfighting at light heavy at the end of his career and was injured and too heavy.

if you look at his prime years unfortunately partly ravaged by the war he was unbeaten between 37 and 43 and was unbeaten in 40 fights.

(as you will know dont be fooled by some of the records of his opponents which are very incomplete).

He then got injured in the war and was never the same fighter.


I actually meant he never got a shot at the British title even, the war, politics, injury, all combining to rob him of a valid shot which may have opened the gate to bigger things.

I believe Jock Mcavoy was the incumbant of the british title for most the time Gilroy was a contender (real name Antonio Rae).


Kid blackie if you want I have a book on the man, its gives a fascinating insight not only into boxing during these times the booths etc but the social mood of the era.

if you want as ive read it Ill post it to you? let me know if you are interested.

[KidBlackie]

[[[Kid blackie if you want I have a book on the man, its gives a fascinating insight not only into boxing during these times the booths etc but the social mood of the era.

if you want as ive read it Ill post it to you? let me know if you are interested.]]]
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Well, I've always been interested in why Jimmy Wilde always seems to be lost in conversation about greats. I understand he fought many a booth fight. Not up to date on my blimey lingo. Are you saying you have the book on your computer and can post it to me, or saying that you could post it via the postal service?

[J !]

well he isnt lost on me and Ive referred to him numerous times on here.

The ghiost with the hammer in his hand is aruably the finest fly weight ever to draw breath.

no the book is paperback dude but i can post it fom work so its free!

[KidBlackie]

[[[no the book is paperback dude but i can post it fom work so its free!]]]
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Sure, give me your email, and I'll send you my address and give you a book report afterwards!