God, No God, Morals, and Evolution

[K-DOGG]

Okay, seriously. In a weird way, that makes sense.

Every guy on here knows that when it all boils down to it, women are the ones in charge of whether or not we get to have sex. True? Yes. I'm not saying we having developed cunning skills over time and such; but, ultimately, they have the "yes/no" power.

So, as the human brain developed, women who were fed up with neanderthal behavior.....no pun intended, neanderthals, afterall, were a completely different species.......didn't result in as many men having sex, so men had to redefine their behavior a little over time. As a result, men who had the best combination of "manly" as well as "sensitve" and "intelligent" behavior patterns procreated more, thus producing more intelligent offspring with more sensitivities.....morals, sympathy, empathy, etc. in addition to their "manly survival skills".


Holy ****! I've just answered my own question!!

The reason we have morality, compassion for others and such......is because it took our ancestors displaying these traits in order to get laid.


Good grief. And I thought there was some deep answer involved.

Nope. It was about sex all along.



Guess we know now why Adam took a bite of that apple.

Guys! Seriously, does this make perfect sense......or is it just me??

[The Noose]

Good post, Bobby.....though I would point out that there are plenty of people in the world who act badly towards others and nothing ever happens back to them, just as there are plenty of good people who do good unto others who have bad stuff happen to them all the time. The only time, logically and "un-supernaturally" that "karma" comes into play is when those people who you did either bad or good to remember and have a chance to return the favour....which could be considered both primitive, in the case of vengence.....and intellectual, in the case of returning a good favour.

Still, good post.

I didnt really mean the actual karma thing. I dont believe in that at all.

But my poverall point was that we have evolved an understanding that we will one day grow old and feeble and our health will fail us. Other animals dont realise this.
So our morality and compassion allow us to help others knowing that one day we will need help.
It makes logical sense to me. And compassion is a kind of self preservation.


I asked my friend this same question. He said we didnt evolve morals, we developed them.

[K-DOGG]

I didnt really mean the actual karma thing. I dont believe in that at all.

But my poverall point was that we have evolved an understanding that we will one day grow old and feeble and our health will fail us. Other animals dont realise this.
So our morality and compassion allow us to help others knowing that one day we will need help.
It makes logical sense to me. And compassion is a kind of self preservation.


I asked my friend this same question. He said we didnt evolve morals, we developed them.

Okay, I gotcha. Developed, not evolved....makes sense.

[The Noose]

Guys! Seriously, does this make perfect sense......or is it just me??

lol.
Yea, thats the best answer yet.

That'll teach u to ask other people!

[K-DOGG]

lol.
Yea, thats the best answer yet.

That'll teach u to ask other people!

I have nothing more to say.

[phallus]

Though i am not an atheist, i'll try to play devil's advocate so to speak.

So the essential question presented in this thread is: how can there be morality without God? Why would humans evolve to develope morality, if there is no God.....what purpose does it serve?

I don't have a definitive answer, but i'll try to present some ideas.

Though i believe that morality ultimately stems from God--as does everything good in this world--but i don't think that means atheists are unable to understand the concept of morals. Their logic is just slightly different than believers. People don't kill because they themselve don't want to be killed. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" isn't an idea restricted to a Christian's understanding. For example, if you hit someone, i would think it to be natural to expect retaliation; and because of this, people refrain from hitting each other. The same goes for murder, rape, etc.

Another point we be that we have morals because we have evolved. The human brain has grown and become more sophistocated, thus increasing our range and capacity to feel more complicated emotions. Why did we evolve? Who knows? I mean, why is there life in the first place? Maybe just because. Perhaps there is no explanation; it's just chance.

...or evolution is all about self-preservation. Compared to all other animals, humans are fairly weak and awkwardly formed, so intellectual development was necessary for our survival. Intellectual development = larger brains = more sophisticated feelings = the ability to concieve of morality, love, etc. So in a way, morality is connected to survival of the fittest...our survival as a species.

this is a good explanantion, cple, u're a smart man. i see however, two problems:

1. self preservation - often in today's world self preservation means tragic consequences for at least one, but often in some cases, many groups of people. i don't see this as a kind of morality, why is one person's survival more meaningful or important than another person's, or better yet, an entire group of people.

2. people do not kill others because they themselves are afraid of being killed. there are certain types of people - masochists, for example, who derive pleasure from pain. these people do indeed want to experience pain at the hands of other people and look for it in every situation. while masochists may be a minority, in todays world a minority is hundreds of thousands of people. there may also indeed be people for whom increasing pain and suffering in the world in general is seen as a good thing. terrorists, for example.


bottom line is: i don't believe it is at all possible to have any kind of morality without an absolute standard - God. with humans, everything is relative - we can make bad into good with false justifications
(yes, just in case u're wondering, i have a philosophy degree)

[K-DOGG]

this is a good explanantion, cple, u're a smart man. i see however, two problems:

1. self preservation - often in today's world self preservation means tragic consequences for at least one, but often in some cases, many groups of people. i don't see this as a kind of morality, why is one person's survival more meaningful or important than another person's, or better yet, an entire group of people.

2. people do not kill others because they themselves are afraid of being killed. there are certain types of people - masochists, for example, who derive pleasure from pain. these people do indeed want to experience pain at the hands of other people and look for it in every situation. while masochists may be a minority, in todays world a minority is hundreds of thousands of people. there may also indeed be people for whom increasing pain and suffering in the world in general is seen as a good thing. terrorists, for example.


bottom line is: i don't believe it is at all possible to have any kind of morality without an absolute standard - God. with humans, everything is relative - we can make bad into good with false justifications
(yes, just in case u're wondering, i have a philosophy degree)

Bro, you and I are on the same page. ....cept of course, I never got a philosophy degree.

[* FeistyWench *]

Guys! Seriously, does this make perfect sense......or is it just me??

it's just you.

[K-DOGG]

it's just you.

Thanks....knew I could count on you for support.

How's the youngin'?

.....and the mom?

[* FeistyWench *]

Thanks....knew I could count on you for support.

How's the youngin'?

.....and the mom?

mom is tired. having 2 kids (an infant and toddler) is much more challenging.
joshua is good...still trying to get him to realize that day is for awake and night is for sleeping. he is quite the night owl. i will teach him yet! lol!