Socialism? Capitalism?

[JimRaynor]

Jobs are created by the demand that emanates from the masses.

Why do entrepreneurs and business owners create job openings? Usually because their business is expanding its operations. Why does a business expand? Because of demand. Who creates demand? Most of society aka the masses.

So it's demand that causes job growth, not the wand waving entrepreneurs.

Demand only happens when a product has been established by those wand waving entrepreneurs. There was no demand for home computers when they weren't invented. It wasn't until Microsoft and Apple were created that a demand arose to obtain those products. I don't recall the masses demanding for a touchscreen Iphone before a touchscreen Iphone came out, but once it did people couldn't get enough of it.

You're using the example of demand in the most abstract non applicable way. By your logic I can say there is a demand among the "masses" for flying cars, infinite energy, or unicorns for pets, but until someone invents a flying car and slaps his brand on it so people could purchase it then the demand for it is nil.

[Hype job]

Demand only happens when a product has been established by those wand waving entrepreneurs. There was no demand for home computers when they weren't invented. It wasn't until Microsoft and Apple were created that a demand arose to obtain those products. I don't recall the masses demanding for a touchscreen Iphone before a touchscreen Iphone came out, but once it did people couldn't get enough of it.

You're using the example of demand in the most abstract non applicable way. By your logic I can say there is a demand among the "masses" for flying cars, infinite energy, or unicorns for pets, but until someone invents a flying car and slaps his brand on it so people could purchase it then the demand for it is nil.

True to an extent, in the initial stages a business creates demand through marketing. From then on demand and business expansion is driven by demand from the populace. So demand from the general population is what generates job growth.

[Hype job]

Shame. You were on board then you back-pedalled. Tell me what you think is wrong and I'll educate you.

If you're going to make blanket statements either back them up with facts and figures or don't make them at all.

[Hype job]

Almost every historical socialist state. There's your evidence. Incentive goes. Then the money. When the rice farmer takes home as much as the doctor. When degrees are only worth using as toilet paper:

Again, you're talking about communism, not socialism.

[Hype job]

No no no I'm not. But I am using socialist and communist examples. Socialism is pretty close to communism when the money runs out. This is getting tiring.

And if you honestly want me to compile a list of every failed socialist state, or every socialist/communist state, or every failing socialist state, then there's no point in continuing the conversation. You guys are like creationists.

What examples?

Name me one socialist state where a rice farmer makes as much as a doctor, as you said.

[Hype job]

Hyperbole

[LoadedWraps]

Where my socialists at!?

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Potentially. But that's crony capitalism and corporate *******s in bed with politicians.

But poverty is a direct descendant of socialism. It's very fast and starts straight away. Profit is a direct descendant of capitalism. As I said before, incentive is the key to advancing as a society.

But yes, capitalism in the west is under attack with an infection of corrupt ****s where money talks. Corporatism. That's why the democratic vote is so important.

So well said, man.

[LoadedWraps]

So well said, man.

Incentive doesn't only exist in capitalistic environments, to play devil's advocate here.

[Tony Trick-Pony]

Incentive doesn't only exist in capitalistic environments, to play devil's advocate here.

Oh no, it doesn't.

But you have to look at the incentives present. A government worker does not have the same incentives as a private worker. No matter what, a government worker wants their job to remain intact despite the results. A government program can go on for years while showing few positive results. However, in the private market, a business will have to pay a much sterner price and even go under if it does not perform. The incentive for a government worker is not effectiveness but merely to keep their job. A worker in the private market must want that business profitable which means being highly effective to customers.

Any system has incentives. However, the incentives are different under each and I favor the capitalist incentive of providing a product or service that must compete with tremendous competition unlike many government positions which are monopolies.