The EU referendum - UK Votes to Leave!

[BostonGuy]

I agree. Trying to set laws such as maximum working hours and **** like that is crazy. That should be left to member states to decide. Most of it seems to be well intentioned, but I prefer freedom of choice for these issues. Personal and national.

If you're Germany would you bail out Greece without imposing some rules on them? I mean, this country ****ed up, bad. Spending money like nobodies business while not really bringing anything in. Why would you lend money to a country who had got themselves into that situation without trying to change how they run their country?

Yes, Germany has the right to impose financial conditions on its loans but I wanted to illustrate the degree of influence Germany had over Greece. A lot of Greeks took issue with the level of austerity measures that Germany imposed on them. Those measures have a significant impact on the lives of ordinary Greeks; it's basically a foreign country dictating how they can organize their economy, welfare benefits and other social programs.

[Tom Cruise]

Yes, Germany has the right to impose financial conditions on its loans but I wanted to illustrate the degree of influence Germany had over Greece. A lot of Greeks took issue with the level of austerity measures that Germany imposed on them. Those measures have a significant impact on the lives of ordinary Greeks; it's basically a foreign country dictating how they can organize their economy, welfare benefits and other social programs.

If i'm honest, if I was an ordinary Greek, I'd rather have a German running my country than one of those Greek politicians

But in all seriousness, Germany was/is lending them billions in taxpayers money. Greece have done much better out of this deal than Germany and other rich EU nations have. I get that Greece want to control their own affairs, but if you **** up as badly as they did, you have to expect bail outs are going to come with some conditions.

[Welsh Jon]

Actually I think now is a perfect time to try and fix it from within with so many member states being unhappy how it is being run.

The decisions they make are going to affect us either way, so why not be at the table?

I say look at Switzerland. Through a series of treaties they have negotiated they have most of the benefits of being a EU member without losing it's sovereignty to Brussels.

We need Europe as a trading block but not as a legislative body. The British economy is strong enough that the rest of Europe won't just cut us off if we leave because they don't want to miss out on trade either.

[slimshandy69]

I say look at Switzerland. Through a series of treaties they have negotiated they have most of the benefits of being a EU member without losing it's sovereignty to Brussels.

We need Europe as a trading block but not as a legislative body. The British economy is strong enough that the rest of Europe won't just cut us off if we leave because they don't want to miss out on trade either.

Norway, iceland and the swiss all have better standard of living than england.

Unless you own big business, the eu destroys communities, lowers wages, and removes power to the british people.

There are no positives to remain in the eu, none and cruise has offered jothing to the dabate so far.

[Hitman Hodgson]

If you're Germany would you bail out Greece without imposing some rules on them? I mean, this country ****ed up, bad. Spending money like nobodies business while not really bringing anything in. Why would you lend money to a country who had got themselves into that situation without trying to change how they run their country?

If there was a process of due diligence then Greece would've never been allowed to join the Euro in the first place. The sanctions imposed on Greece has seen unemployment sky rocket, and GDP drop by nearly 30%, that's what happens when you impose austerity on a struggling economy. The Germans were stupid to lend so much to Greece in the first place. If a lender is daft enough to lend money that it obviously won't get back then they should accept their proportion of the blame, and write some of the debt off.
My personal opinion is that too much of the Eurozone crisis has been handled based on politics instead of economics. In fact, the whole single currency project has been based on politics instead of economics.

[1bad65]

****in' Brits don't have the minerals to vote to succeed. A similar proposal happened last year where the Scots voted to stay in the U.K.

I thought of this too.

It seems Europeans just don't tend to vote for freedom and less Government. Sadly America is getting just as bad.

[1bad65]

I get that Greece want to control their own affairs, but if you **** up as badly as they did, you have to expect bail outs are going to come with some conditions.

Bingo! Well said.

[Tom Cruise]

Norway, iceland and the swiss all have better standard of living than england.

Unless you own big business, the eu destroys communities, lowers wages, and removes power to the british people.

There are no positives to remain in the eu, none and cruise has offered jothing to the dabate so far.

Norway, Iceland and the Swiss all have industries that cant be achieved just anywhere. Iceland geothermal power allows to produce a crap tonne of energy which can be used for the very energy intensive Aluminium industry (googled that ****). Norway has Oil. Lots of oil. The Swiss have dodgy banks which will take bad peoples money from all over the world. Even the Nazi's didnt **** with the Swiss' autonomy. Something dodgy there for sure.

This gives them a huge amount negotiating power compared to say, Britain, who's industries are mostly transferable.

Welsh Jon is right that the EU would still trade with us, ofcourse they would. But import duty would make our goods more expensive to sell, so why would international companies set up here when they could set up in an EU country and sell their products more cheaply?

Taking ourselves out of the EU isnt going to solve our problems. We will still be tied to their economy like we are now, only we will be in a worse position and unable to influence their decisions.

We will still be facing the prospect of migrants coming here, because we are a rich country with jobs and infrastructure. If anything we will lose the 'good' migrants (who come from.the EU and are profitable for our economy) and keep getting the asylum seekers who are a drain on our finances.

Brussels needs to take a step back. Trying to dictate laws across an extremely varied membership like they are currently is just not going to work. Now is a good time to try and force these changes due to the discontent that many of the member states are feeling with the EU (particularly the richer countries).

[Kris Silver]

The reality is a lot of people rather than being empowered to make rational unbiased assessments on such a vote, all to often that empowerment becomes one of a rebellious, inward looking propaganda show.

Not saying all 'in' voters are wholly rational and making full assessments either. But the former is a more commonly seen behaviorism.

We saw it with the Scottish independent vote. It started 60-40 but as people become romanticised at how great and powerful thered be as an independent nation, many maybes became convinced leaving was needed and good.

And by the way, Scotland would hold another independence vote if we leave the EU. So this nationalistic push could well see us lose years of economic deals needing renegotiating, but also a country lost from Britain. The grass isn't always greener.

[Welsh Jon]

Welsh Jon is right that the EU would still trade with us, ofcourse they would. But import duty would make our goods more expensive to sell, so why would international companies set up here when they could set up in an EU country and sell their products more cheaply

We can leave the EU and still become a member of the European Free Trade Association, like Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Norway etc. Thus paying no import duty when trading with the EU. Britain is a large enough and rich enough market that I can't see the EU denying us a place in the EFTA because it would cost them a lot of money too.