Mass shooting in California.

[The Big Dunn]

You are missing the bigger point. I think we can both agree that there are racist in this country. I also reject your premise that because there are more Catholics in this country, they aren't put on the same level as ISIS.

ISIS and the Catholic Church are both bad but only one wants world wide dominance, is cutting the heads off of journalists on camera, raping and taking in young girls as brides, burning people alive, and have said over and over again that they want a world wide Caliphate. Let's not be silly on this point.

Would you not agree that there are different teachings in different religions and that those teachings matter?

I am not missing the bigger point, I just do not think it needs to be argued when trying to deal with the problem. Obviously, there are significant differences in the intentions of the actors. I am talking about how we respond to events that have taken place.

IMO we can better deal with ISIS if we respond to Muslim extremists as extremists first and Muslims second, not the other way around. I do not see what good is accomplished by making ALL Muslims out to be potential terror actors.

I also do not want to see children of poor and working class families die because the politicians are framing this was US against Islam. I am all for using whatever advanced weapons we have to fight ISIS, AL Qaeda, and any extremists there are.

[The Big Dunn]

Why are these people committing acts of terror in the name of allah, terror has no religion... Funny, why are these people who chop peoples heads off, burn people alive, kill all the men in the village, rape woman and put them into slavery and bring up kids as brainwashed soldiers all seem to know the teaching of allah...
Then constantly shouting allahu akbar after killing their 'infidel' or christians/jewish or whatever they deem not to be in their teachings.
You can be a denier all you want.

Take a little gander at the Quran and go over all the passages.
Atleast allow me to be fair I think all religions have a bad past in some way or another its just blatantly obvious that Islam is clearly affiliated with so much wrong doing.
People can say you don't fight terror with terror but these are the same people who never experience what its like to be in that situation, If you can give it out but not take it back then you don't give it out at all in the first place - fire with fire is the only way.

Religions are the root to all evil and quite simply we'd probably be better off without some phony pathetic little god that these people waste their entire life on.

The punishment for apostasy in the Islamic religion is death, no other religion would punish you in such an extreme manner.

"minority" lol... duh!!!
How many muslims are there stop trying to make it like its a small number there are a lot who agree with their teachings and ideology.

Lets say there are 500,000 extremists. what percentage is that of all Muslims?

I do not fault you for feeling the way you do. I just do not see the merit of it.

If you frame it as war against Islam, then you make enemies with moderate Muslims, who would be the best ally in the fight against extremist given what we know.

Those that do not support extremism need a place they can go and be safe as well.

[ShoulderRoll]

Let's be real, in the 20th century the West was the one who began meddling in the affairs of the Middle East first. We "started it" so to speak.

From taking a piece of their land to create Israel and then turning it over to mostly European Jews....to staging a coup in order to overthrow the elected prime minister of Iran in 1953....to funding/arming/training the people who would become the Taliban and Al Qaeda and even ISIS.

We are responsible for creating a lot of the mess over there. What we have done is just as harmful to them as any terrorism has been to us.

[1bad65]

Because it's such a closed organization, justice was never served the way it needed to be.

How so? Again, people were thrown in prison (and one priest was killed in prison by a fellow inmate) and the church was sued.

The acts of a few Muslims, is not representative of 1.6 billion Muslims on this planet, that's just fact.

But the problem is that other muslims were celebrating the attacks. I don't recall seeing Catholics celebrating the child rapes.

No we should not, this is exactly what the extremists want. What we need to do is prop up the moderates, and have them take the trash out as Christianity did hundreds of years ago.

You failed to address my point, which is their book calls for violence like we saw in San Bernardino.

As for taking out the trash, it won't happen. It hasn't happened yet, and they've had a good thousand years to get it done. Face it, they have no desire to clean up their garbage.

To be fair, there have been many Christian cults that have arisen and done some horrible things. Jones Town, David Koresh and many others.[/QUOTE]

Neither of those are comparable. Try again.

Jonestown was mostly the cult members killing themselves, plus that happened decades ago. As for Koresh, his group was slaughtered by the government. and before their slaughter, they'd committed no acts of terror.

Again, we can argue theology which I would agree most of that stuff goes against what Christ teaches, but religion over all is a very powerful tool to manipulate the masses.

But yet you don't see all these other religions beheading journalists, stoning rape victims to death, crashing planes into building and using suicide shooters and bombers on innocents like you see with islam. Face it, they are the probelm. Not religion as a whole.

They are not, but as I have named, some are. Killing abortion doctors is coming from a Christian extremist point of view, no matter how skewed.

Again, you named none. Those were not comparable acts.

Plus, look at the numbers. We see more islamic terror here than Christian terror, and we have alot more Christians here than muslims. The numbers should be opposite of what they are. The fact they are what they are proves it's islam that's the problem here. The numbers don't lie.

[1bad65]

ISIS and the Catholic Church are both bad but only one wants world wide dominance, is cutting the heads off of journalists on camera, raping and taking in young girls as brides, burning people alive, and have said over and over again that they want a world wide Caliphate. Let's not be silly on this point.

Bingo!

How he can't see those facts are beyond me.

[The Big Dunn]

Bingo!

How he can't see those facts are beyond me.

How so? Again, people were thrown in prison (and one priest was killed in prison by a fellow inmate) and the church was sued.



But the problem is that other muslims were celebrating the attacks. I don't recall seeing Catholics celebrating the child rapes.



You failed to address my point, which is their book calls for violence like we saw in San Bernardino.

As for taking out the trash, it won't happen. It hasn't happened yet, and they've had a good thousand years to get it done. Face it, they have no desire to clean up their garbage.

To be fair, there have been many Christian cults that have arisen and done some horrible things. Jones Town, David Koresh and many others.

Neither of those are comparable. Try again.

Jonestown was mostly the cult members killing themselves, plus that happened decades ago. As for Koresh, his group was slaughtered by the government. and before their slaughter, they'd committed no acts of terror.



But yet you don't see all these other religions beheading journalists, stoning rape victims to death, crashing planes into building and using suicide shooters and bombers on innocents like you see with islam. Face it, they are the probelm. Not religion as a whole.



Again, you named none. Those were not comparable acts.

Plus, look at the numbers. We see more islamic terror here than Christian terror, and we have alot more Christians here than muslims. The numbers should be opposite of what they are. The fact they are what they are proves it's islam that's the problem here. The numbers don't lie.

[/QUOTE]

You quoted me on things I didn't post.

As I said to Cahut-I am talking about the differences in the response. I just think the war is with extremists, not Muslims. I see no merit in making it a war against Islam.

[1bad65]

People like you are horrified when you are treated based on the behavior of a small segment of your community. Why do you think its different for others.

Not sure what you are saying here. Can you please rephrase it?

If you think the war is with Islam, then you are an imbecile.

Do not stoop to insults please. Such antics constitute a concession of the debate. If you can't state your case in an adult manner, you have no case to state. Thank you.

Billions of people follow the teaching of the Quran and do not commit acts of terror. Why not judge Muslims on the behavior of the majority instead of the minority of extremists?

As was said earlier, they refuse to clean up their trash. You keep a trashy house, expect to be called out for being trashy.

Plus, we see them celebrate when the 'radicals' commit their acts of terror. To me, that speaks volumes.

Someone else (perhaps on this site, I can't recall) once said:

'A radical Muslim wants to behead you.
A moderate Muslim wants a radical Muslim to behead you.'

[The Big Dunn]

Let's be real, in the 20th century the West was the one who began meddling in the affairs of the Middle East first. We "started it" so to speak.

From taking a piece of their land to create Israel and then turning it over to mostly European Jews....to staging a coup in order to overthrow the elected prime minister of Iran in 1953....to funding/arming/training the people who would become the Taliban and Al Qaeda and even ISIS.

We are responsible for creating a lot of the mess over there. What we have done is just as harmful to them as any terrorism has been to us.

Yup. Israel is our main ally. Judaism is at war with Islam. I am neither Jewish nor Muslim and do not want to be part of any Holy War.

[1bad65]

Let's be real, in the 20th century the West was the one who began meddling in the affairs of the Middle East first. We "started it" so to speak.

Nope.

Muslims were attacking US ships and capturing Americans and selling them into slavery long ago. Heck, Jefferson had to send the Navy out to deal with the Barbary pirates.

Muslims were a pain in our ass back when this country was founded, and they are a pain in our ass to this day.

[D-MiZe]

Plus, we see them celebrate when the 'radicals' commit their acts of terror. To me, that speaks volumes.

Someone else (perhaps on this site, I can't recall) once said:

'A radical Muslim wants to behead you.
A moderate Muslim wants a radical Muslim to behead you.'

Making a lot of generalisations there.

This is exactly what TBD is speaking against, clumping individuals into a group and picking one out and saying he represents all.

If I said that I know a 43 year old guy who was a fan of the Gracie's and that he was also a 400lb, beer swigging **** who fingered chimps and ate the flaked skin off a zebra's toe - you'd think me a fool for saying that is applicable to other 43 year old Gracie fans. Right?

Because being a 43 year old and a Gracie fan isn't unique, in fact there are probably thousands upon thousands that fit that niche. However, there are more Muslims than 43 year old Gracie fans. If you think it ridiculous you fit my above stereotype, imagine how ridiculous it would be for all Muslims to fit one.