Mass shooting in California.

[D-MiZe]

I don't know if anyone has seen this;

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/70...eform-movement


It's about time.

Going to play a little devil's advocate too...

So we went to war with the Middle East for many different reasons. 9/11 wasn't the first thing that provoked Western intervention over there but it was a damn good reason to go again.

The importance of 9/11 can never be diminished as that was the moment that this 'Jihadism' and 'terrorism' were brought to our attentions. However, at least in my opinion, it began to deviate away from that initial cause and it was more about freeing people of a tyrannical dictator and setting up the country to prosper in the future.

I never saw the conflict as religious. I saw it as the West vs the East, Us against Them. Them being Asians.

Back in the 1940s, if you heard a German accent in a film - you're going to assume the guy is a Nazi or that it has something to do with Nazism. In that era a nationality and ideology became synonymous with each other and the same is happening today. You see Asian, you think Muslim. You think Muslim and your mind begins to wonder...

It's why Christian acts of terror aren't acts of terror. Because it's 'our' religion and not 'theirs', there isn't anything terrifying about it. By default, by being white but primarily Westernized, we 'instinctively' know that the motives of a terror act committed by someone like Anders Breivik are not as heinous and cold as those by our Middle Eastern counterparts. Consider this - you'd much rather share a room with Breivik than a Muslim extremist.

I don't think Asians assimilating is too much of a problem in America, certainly nothing like the blacks. There is definitely an issue there and is often exaggerated by a percentage of them being a Muslim. Blacks probably had an easier time too with Christianity. I'm sure some white folk saw a 'nigger' who's God fearing as some sort of redeeming quality...

Another consideration;

Asian Muslim blows up supermarket.
Reaction; Well no shit. Standard. Does a bear shit in the woods.

White Muslim blows up supermarket.
Reaction; Oh man, must've had a mental disorder or something. Probably a social outcast at school. White Muslims, teh fuck.

[1bad65]

The strong reaction to the complete Muslim community, not just those that have committed acts, should have been the reaction to the Catholic church IMO.

I surely am not using the term racism but lets be honest-we judge all Muslims on the acts of a few but we would NEVER judge every Catholic on the acts of a few. That is the real discrepancy that needs to be addressed.

What are you talking about? The mulsims were treated much better. After the sex scandals people were calling for heads to roll, people were imprisoned, and the church was sued. Contrast it to the reaction to muslims, which was (mainly liberals) calling for tolerance for muslims. It's black and white, and almost incomprehensible you can't see the difference and the glaring double standard.

Instead, we act as if every Muslim is a threat.

We should. Their holy book tells them kill anyone who is not a muslim.

Of course this type of response to non white minorities in the US goes back a long time. All it does is foster resentment among the entire community.

And there's the race card.

When there are Christians that conduct domestic terror, we are quick to label them "sects" or "branches"-clearly delineating them from the masses.

What are you talking about? Care to name a few of these supposed "sects" or "branches" and the domestic terror incidents to which you refer?

When hate groups use the Bible to justify their actions and beliefs-we are quick to label them "religious zealots" as to not offend others that practice the same.

Because their actions aren't violent. Look at Westboro, the poster children for radical Christianity in the US. Though disgusting, they are completely non-violent. They commit no violence nor call for others to commit violence.

Perhaps we need to start there in this fight-delineate good from bad and condemn only those that are extreme.

Where you need to start is by learning the basic facts. Most of your posts on this are full of untruths.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

We disagree. The strong reaction to the complete Muslim community, not just those that have committed acts, should have been the reaction to the Catholic church IMO.

I surely am not using the term racism but lets be honest-we judge all Muslims on the acts of a few but we would NEVER judge every Catholic on the acts of a few. That is the real discrepancy that needs to be addressed.

Well I think you underestimate how much bad publicity the Catholic Chruch has gotten. Unfortunately, blowing people up and cutting the heads off of journalist, gets more attention than the molestation and rape of young boys by some priests.

Both are horrific, but I think that's why the media has covered this differently. ISIS is a much more dangerous organization than the Cathlic Church, as bad as the Catholic Church has been don't get me wrong.

If we treat this as a problem of extremists we might get some traction. Instead, we act as if every Muslim is a threat. Of course this type of response to non white minorities in the US goes back a long time. All it does is foster resentment among the entire community.

Who is doing this? Aren't you kind of falling for the same stereotyping that you re accusing others of having against Muslims? If you look at the amount of attacks against Muslims in this country since 9/11, it's been almost non existent when you compare that to the amount of people in the U.S. I think Americans have shown incredible restraint against attacking Muslims indiscriminately.

Sure, some people are racist, but for the most part even protests against the Ground Zero Mosque have been incredibly peaceful.

When there are Christians that conduct domestic terror, we are quick to label them "sects" or "branches"-clearly delineating them from the masses. When hate groups use the Bible to justify their actions and beliefs-we are quick to label them "religious zealots" as to not offend others that practice the same.

Perhaps we need to start there in this fight-delineate good from bad and condemn only those that are extreme.

This is an important point you raise, and the nuance that needs to be discussed. There are bad people in all religions, I think we can all agree on that. We also need to be mature to say that all religions are not created equal.

When Christians commit acts of terror as they have done in this country, and most recently in the Planned Parenthood attacks, they are doing it against the teachings of Christ.

I'm an atheist, so I have no dog in this fight. If you ask me though, what one religion I would choose over any other religion, I would probably want people to be Janists, or Sikhs. There is a HUGE difference in those religions, and Islam.

We need to stop lumping in all religions in one tidy and neat group. There are differences, and those differences cause different actions.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

What are you talking about? The mulsims were treated much better. After the sex scandals people were calling for heads to roll, people were imprisoned, and the church was sued. Contrast it to the reaction to muslims, which was (mainly liberals) calling for tolerance for muslims. It's black and white, and almost incomprehensible you can't see the difference and the glaring double standard.

Uhhhh....kind of. The Catholic Church was scrutinized, but it also got away with a lot of really disgusting things. Because it's such a closed organization, justice was never served the way it needed to be. Priests were moved, and rapes were covered up. The acts of a few Muslims, is not representative of 1.6 billion Muslims on this planet, that's just fact.

We should. Their holy book tells them kill anyone who is not a muslim.

No we should not, this is exactly what the extremists want. What we need to do is prop up the moderates, and have them take the trash out as Christianity did hundreds of years ago.

And there's the race card.

It really is the root of the problem when it comes to discussing this with liberal progressives. I am a liberal for the most part (even though I'm more conservative when it comes to fiscal issues) but I'm not a progressive. Progressives are shutting down the conversation by using the race card because let's face it, Islam is a brown people's religion for the most part.

What are you talking about? Care to name a few of these supposed "sects" or "branches" and the domestic terror incidents to which you refer?

To be fair, there have been many Christian cults that have arisen and done some horrible things. Jones Town, David Koresh and many others. Again, we can argue theology which I would agree most of that stuff goes against what Christ teaches, but religion over all is a very powerful tool to manipulate the masses.

Because their actions aren't violent. Look at Westboro, the poster children for radical Christianity in the US. Though disgusting, they are completely non-violent. They commit no violence nor call for others to commit violence.

They are not, but as I have named, some are. Killing abortion doctors is coming from a Christian extremist point of view, no matter how skewed.

[Weebler I]

It's why Christian acts of terror aren't acts of terror. Because it's 'our' religion and not 'theirs', there isn't anything terrifying about it. By default, by being white but primarily Westernized, we 'instinctively' know that the motives of a terror act committed by someone like Anders Breivik are not as heinous and cold as those by our Middle Eastern counterparts. Consider this - you'd much rather share a room with Breivik than a Muslim extremist.

They're not usually done in the name of religion. Your Breivik example...his motives were cold and pretty ridiculous.

Asian Muslim blows up supermarket.
Reaction; Well no shit. Standard. Does a bear shit in the woods.

White Muslim blows up supermarket.
Reaction; Oh man, must've had a mental disorder or something. Probably a social outcast at school. White Muslims, teh fuck.

I don't think that would be the reaction to any Muslim blowing up a supermarket, white or not.

[The Big Dunn]

Well I think you underestimate how much bad publicity the Catholic Chruch has gotten. Unfortunately, blowing people up and cutting the heads off of journalist, gets more attention than the molestation and rape of young boys by some priests.

Both are horrific, but I think that's why the media has covered this differently. ISIS is a much more dangerous organization than the Cathlic Church, as bad as the Catholic Church has been don't get me wrong.



Who is doing this? Aren't you kind of falling for the same stereotyping that you re accusing others of having against Muslims? If you look at the amount of attacks against Muslims in this country since 9/11, it's been almost non existent when you compare that to the amount of people in the U.S. I think Americans have shown incredible restraint against attacking Muslims indiscriminately.

Sure, some people are racist, but for the most part even protests against the Ground Zero Mosque have been incredibly peaceful.



This is an important point you raise, and the nuance that needs to be discussed. There are bad people in all religions, I think we can all agree on that. We also need to be mature to say that all religions are not created equal.

When Christians commit acts of terror as they have done in this country, and most recently in the Planned Parenthood attacks, they are doing it against the teachings of Christ.

I'm an atheist, so I have no dog in this fight. If you ask me though, what one religion I would choose over any other religion, I would probably want people to be Janists, or Sikhs. There is a HUGE difference in those religions, and Islam.

We need to stop lumping in all religions in one tidy and neat group. There are differences, and those differences cause different actions.

I think media coverage is different because media members are catholic, are married to Catholics, are friends with Catholics, went to catholic schools, and most importantly, look like other catholics. With respect to Islam, going back to the 60's, its been demonized, even before the we experienced the number of attacks from extremists.

America as a whole, but specifically white Americans, have a bad history of judging minority groups on the negatives while asking that they be judged by the positives. We need to create one standard of judging and adhere to it. That will go a long way to eliminating the resentment.

Physical attacks are miniscule but they pale in comparison to verbal attacks and the "propaganda war". IMO there has been a demonizing of the religion as a whole, and not just extremists.

The extremists demonize moderates and then Americans in turn demonizes them as well. where do they turn, which side do they join?

[D-MiZe]

They're not usually done in the name of religion. Your Breivik example...his motives were cold and pretty ridiculous.



I don't think that would be the reaction to any Muslim blowing up a supermarket, white or not.

To your first point, that's because of how the media will report it etc. Although it's not an act of terror because ze Christian was re-acting to a perceived threat or expressing their need/want for freedom. Which sounds exactly like what a Muslim would say Jihdad is.

Breivik wasn't a great example, he was just the first one that came to mind. But the point remains that you'd rather share a room with him than a Muslim who had committed a similar act.

I was trying to get the saying ' one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist ' across as I think it's really important in this context. Many extremist Muslims believe what they are doing is giving up their life for the greater struggle of Islam. Whether it's misguided or not, it certainly is the former, the saying rings true.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

I think media coverage is different because media members are catholic, are married to Catholics, are friends with Catholics, went to catholic schools, and most importantly, look like other catholics. With respect to Islam, going back to the 60's, its been demonized, even before the we experienced the number of attacks from extremists.

America as a whole, but specifically white Americans, have a bad history of judging minority groups on the negatives while asking that they be judged by the positives. We need to create one standard of judging and adhere to it. That will go a long way to eliminating the resentment.

Physical attacks are miniscule but they pale in comparison to verbal attacks and the "propaganda war". IMO there has been a demonizing of the religion as a whole, and not just extremists.

The extremists demonize moderates and then Americans in turn demonizes them as well. where do they turn, which side do they join?

You are missing the bigger point. I think we can both agree that there are racist in this country. I also reject your premise that because there are more Catholics in this country, they aren't put on the same level as ISIS.

ISIS and the Catholic Church are both bad but only one wants world wide dominance, is cutting the heads off of journalists on camera, raping and taking in young girls as brides, burning people alive, and have said over and over again that they want a world wide Caliphate. Let's not be silly on this point.

Would you not agree that there are different teachings in different religions and that those teachings matter?

[The Big Dunn]

What are you talking about? The mulsims were treated much better. After the sex scandals people were calling for heads to roll, people were imprisoned, and the church was sued. Contrast it to the reaction to muslims, which was (mainly liberals) calling for tolerance for muslims. It's black and white, and almost incomprehensible you can't see the difference and the glaring double standard.



We should. Their holy book tells them kill anyone who is not a muslim.



And there's the race card.



What are you talking about? Care to name a few of these supposed "sects" or "branches" and the domestic terror incidents to which you refer?



Because their actions aren't violent. Look at Westboro, the poster children for radical Christianity in the US. Though disgusting, they are completely non-violent. They commit no violence nor call for others to commit violence.



Where you need to start is by learning the basic facts. Most of your posts on this are full of untruths.

You are entitled to feel however you wish. I am well aware of the facts. People like you are horrified when you are treated based on the behavior of a small segment of your community. Why do you think its different for others.

If you think the war is with Islam, then you are an imbecile. Billions of people follow the teaching of the Quran and do not commit acts of terror. Why not judge Muslims on the behavior of the majority instead of the minority of extremists?

[M Bison]

You are entitled to feel however you wish. I am well aware of the facts. People like you are horrified when you are treated based on the behavior of a small segment of your community. Why do you think its different for others.

If you think the war is with Islam, then you are an imbecile. Billions of people follow the teaching of the Quran and do not commit acts of terror. Why not judge Muslims on the behavior of the majority instead of the minority of extremists?

Why are these people committing acts of terror in the name of allah, terror has no religion... Funny, why are these people who chop peoples heads off, burn people alive, kill all the men in the village, rape woman and put them into slavery and bring up kids as brainwashed soldiers all seem to know the teaching of allah...
Then constantly shouting allahu akbar after killing their 'infidel' or christians/jewish or whatever they deem not to be in their teachings.
You can be a denier all you want.

Take a little gander at the Quran and go over all the passages.
Atleast allow me to be fair I think all religions have a bad past in some way or another its just blatantly obvious that Islam is clearly affiliated with so much wrong doing.
People can say you don't fight terror with terror but these are the same people who never experience what its like to be in that situation, If you can give it out but not take it back then you don't give it out at all in the first place - fire with fire is the only way.

Religions are the root to all evil and quite simply we'd probably be better off without some phony pathetic little god that these people waste their entire life on.

The punishment for apostasy in the Islamic religion is death, no other religion would punish you in such an extreme manner.

"minority" lol... duh!!!
How many muslims are there stop trying to make it like its a small number there are a lot who agree with their teachings and ideology.